Don’t use that chart, its inaccurate. Use the statshark one.
When the 2A7V was first introduced, its armor was much stronger, and many people complained about it until the vehicle was nerfed. Since then, its protection has been weakened and adjusted multiple times, to the point where it feels artificially limited compared to what it was originally capable of.
So I have a simple question: when the 2A7V was being nerfed because people complained that its armor was too strong, why didn’t you object to those nerfs? Why was it acceptable to make the vehicle weaker back then, but now that we are asking for Germany to receive a proper improvement, you are suddenly against it?
And this isn’t just about the 2A7V. Germany’s entire top-tier lineup is falling behind. The Strv 122 is not the only comparison. Germany essentially has one competitive 2A7V, while the other Leopard variants are no longer strong enough to compete with the vehicles other nations have received. Calling vehicles introduced three years ago “some of the best” while ignoring how much other nations’ lineups have developed since then is simply not convincing.
I’m not saying the 2A7V is a bad tank. I’m saying that Germany needs meaningful improvements and new competitive vehicles instead of continuing to rely on the same Leopard variants.
If you were willing to accept the 2A7V being weakened when people demanded nerfs, then you should also accept that German players can ask for the vehicle — and Germany’s entire top-tier lineup — to be improved now.
You might not know this but the Leoard 2 has a physical hole in it’s right turret cheek to allow light from the gunner sight to pas through.
Here the space for the gunner optic that is in the right side is seen from above, the squareish hole looks down in the turret basket, but just behind it, or lower in the photo you can see the round hole that goes through the rear part of the turret armor. That is why you have low protection in the middle of the cheek.
Thanks. They just don’t seem to grasp it.
Well thats just pure lies.
That never was the case. It always was around were it currently is. It never was better.
Cause it never happend
You realy need to stop your tirades, they are only full of wrong facts
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You had your cursor hovering over the glacis plate showing a green penetration icon.
If you used the correct camera angle the penetration icon would’ve showed gray.
It wasn’t.
Armour has stayed the same, the difference is how the spall liners function.
It’s also gotten the traverse limitations.
Other nations have barely developed, we’ve not gotten many top-tier additions in those three years.
Russia hasn’t gotten anything better than the T-80BVM, which was introduced 5 years ago.
France hasn’t gotten anything better.
Sweden hasn’t gotten anything better.
Israel hasn’t gotten anything better.
Italy hasn’t gotten anything better.
China has gotten the M1A2T, which is just a M1A2 SEP which the 2A7V already faced on introduction.
Japan has gotten the Leopard 2RI, which is just a worse 2A7V.
USA and Britain have gotten the SEP v3, which is just a extremely marginal upgrade over the M1A2 SEP.
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They did get 2 T-90Ms, gajin favouring voluemtrics of the bvm is anither issue.
They did get a 2a6, you can argue there the comparison to leclercls. But france doesnt have anything realy saving them either.
Best option being embt 2022 or future dutch 2a8
Strv122b+ doesnt exist? And there literaly was nothing else ubtil recently
Dont know enough there
2a7Hu strengthend by centauro.
New 2a7hu possible
Japan still an upgrade.
Issue with germany is the overall development.
Russia did get slightly worse ones like t72 aps.
Germany realy only got its tank development going for it but we got nothing of it.
Gap from 10.7-12.3 mbt wise in tech tree.
Our 12.0 line up is premium only. There is plenty of models veing able to fill that gap.
Top tier just more overall reliability would have been good 2a6ex, 2a7+. But currently germany stays the worse leo top tier line up compared to sweden. Even more so with them getting DM53.
It reaches the point where germans then ask for straight up upgrades like 2a8 after getting nothing. When there is plenty to strengthen the overall capabilities, without raising the capabilities further.
But i do agree xromazeros statements are wrong and ridiculous
One*
T-90M and Leopard 2A7V were introduced within the same patch, and the T-90M Arena-M is massively worse than the 2A7V and thus not a threat or something that justifies Germany getting a better MBT.
(And that’s not me saying Germany shouldn’t get another MBT, just that the T-90M Arena-M is a sad tank which isn’t on-par with the 2A7V nor warrants other nations getting better MBT’s to match)
Huh?
Again, that’s not something which the 2A7V wasn’t already fighting in the Swedish tree by that point, and it also isn’t something that’s on-par with the 2A7V.
Mate, once again, it was introduced in the same patch as the 2A7V.
To clarify, the person I responded to claimed that the 2A7V has been overshadowed by additions over the past 3 years, thus that’s the argument I’m debunking.
The vehicle’s you’re mentioning either aren’t overshadowing the 2A7V at all (T-90M Arena, Leo 2RI, Centauro II, French 2A6, etc. etc.), or were introduced alongside the 2A7V (2A7HU, T-90M, Strv 122B+, etc.) and not in the years since.
‘‘Slightly worse’’
lol.
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Hey you did say in the last 3 years.
Those additions arent 3 years old yet.
And i am talking about general additions not necesarily compared to 2a7V.
As i said
Volumetric of the bvm likely gives more protection as it should at times
Doesnt realy matter, still upgrase to france.
As above i am only talking about general additions.
I mean more that its a lower br
12.0 in this case, which again gwrmany lacks as tech tree, back to my first quote here
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I’m just replying to this portion:
Yes, but that happens on all tanks.
The T-80BVM is still one of the easier tanks to OHK at top-tier.
Just quickly coming up with a rough wishlist, it’d be something like this:
- Pz 87 WE and/or Leopard 2A4 (C technologie) /w DM33 @ 11.3.
- Leopard 2A8 /w DM53 @ 12.7.
- Leopard 2A7A1 /w DM53 @ 12.7.
- Leopard 2A6, Leopard 2 PSO move from 12.7 > 12.3
- Leopard 2A5 loses DM53 & moves from 12.3 > 12.0
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Austria just received a leo 2a4 standard with gen 3 thermals. That would be intresting.
Revolution would be nice as well
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Dont forgot the Russian Breaches which tank as hell
Have the trunions in Soviet T series finally been made to break or are they literally just spall eating indestructible bits of metal that provide no downsides still
Cradle is the bigger issue imo
its literally just a 45mm mCHA shield covering almost the entire breech and was part of the breech previously (still is on Obj 292)
Clearly the trunnions werent enough already.
and of course, oplot didnt get the cradle, they did leave the gap between breech and trunnions though
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2 trashcans are still 2 trashcans.
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Wounder why. They never used it.
I wouldn’t say extremely marginal, the better turret is rather noticeable. That and the updated damage model are noticeable as well.