20mm vs rear of a DF105. Can’t even generate a single crew kill. Primary gun round also unable to generate critical hits. Constant round hits as he rotates his tank even though the 20mm muzzle flash is blinding me.
You trade the frontal ammo rack for an ammo rack that covere the ENTIRE back of your turret. Leo can survive turret hits, amx30 rarely does.
If you haven’t figured out how to find long range on maps at this point, you are pretty hopeless. Stop pressing W into every city and play to the strengths of your tank.
You started to shoot him, fired which put your gun over his tank completely, then when you came back down you started shooting to his left completely missing him cause he moved forward, and as you brought the gun back on him you died.
The initial burst before the primary gun couldn’t even do any postpen damage at all. The primary gun couldn’t do any postpen damage. Then the primary gun firing made the 20mm ineffective because of the recoil. All of this on some of the lightest armor in the game.
Pretty much my exact point to all of this. The 20mm was ineffective. The primary gun is strictly worse than the leo’s. The recoil makes the 20mm unable to act like most top .50s that aren’t effected by recoil, making it even less effective. The muzzle flash blinds you if you want to track targets. A leo apds or HEAT would likely have killed the DF105 even in the situation the AMX30 should have been better.
HEAT post penetration is atrocious and bad across the board. The reason it didn’t kill anyone was because the spall from the round didn’t hit any crew member.
I’ve made threads before complaining about HEAT’s general performance but that is the unfortunate reality in War Thunder, it’s not specific to the AMX or the Leo all HEAT is underperforming.
Irrelevant though as I agree that the Leopard 1 is better than the 1972 AMX-30, not due to that specific performance but because the Leopard has a generally more useful gun due to the APDS shell, not the HEAT-FS. I don’t believe either needs to go up or down in BR.
I am very familiar with that gun, and the APDS is definitely worse for spalling than the HEATFS. And it shatters if you hit anything with more than 1 layer of armour, even if that armour is thin.
APDS shatter mechanics are odd at best, but knowing where to aim is just WT. The Leo 1’s turret mantlet notoriously shatters APDS rounds as well so it’s not like it doesn’t benefit from this itself.
You can’t rely on your armor when 9/10 games are CQC urban city maps, you are just free kills when you are in a full uptier facing fully stabilized tanks with stabilizers and darts.
Leopard at 8.0 is a total disgrace, same thing with the recent BR changes to France, Gaijin has no idea what is like playing these miserable early Cold War era tanks in 9.0
I agree it total pain playing german tech tree. The main problem I see with the Leopard 1 is the fact that it only comes with AP ammo at first. Therefore it’s very difficult to get one shot kills. My personal experience is either I can kill the gunner or destroy the barrel which forces the enemy back in to cover. Therefore no kill, no points. Maybe an assist later.
Or I take out the driver which resulting in me getting instand killed because the enemy’s main gun is still functional.
Maybe Gaijin should think about adjusting the BR based on the installed modules or available ammo types.
wut? basically anything in the game can pen the leopards armor… (slight exaggeration)… its strength is not its armor… … its strength is its gun/rounds and speed.
Lowering the BR will do nothing to fix its armor problems (or lack or armor) sooooo… your argument is redundant and moot.
Sure, i can see lowering it to 7.3 or 7.7, but it really wont change much… Most of the things that got moved up to 8.0 make it so that spot is fine for the leopard.
76mm APFSDS on an ~7-8 second reload, post pen is terrible and the reload doesnt make up for that, yes its very mobile and has a stab but if all you can do is get a single crew member every 7 odd seconds its not great, Just because its APFSDS doesnt automatically mean its superior, for the same caliber of gun maybe, but due to its low caliber all it has is penetration
Not nearly as bad as =<76mm APFSDS. None of this is officially documented anywhere, so forgive me if I mix up a few parts of this, but after a certain Italian autoloading SPAA gun started wiping entire teams at a time, Gaijin took the nerf hammer to low caliber APFSDS hard. Every APDFSDS round with a caliber 76mm or less now has exactly the same post pen spalling modifier.
Which means that those rounds you get to fire at the same rate as 105mm APFSDS are producing the same amount of spalling as a single 25mm APFSDS round from a Bradley. This is why tanks like the Rooikat and HSTVL are so infamously annoying to use, as unless you’re hitting something with the round itself directly, odds are you aren’t doing any meaningful damage. Even ammo won’t consistently blow from the spalling, you need to hit it directly.
This isn’t as much of an issue front on, since most MBTs are cramped and the crew tends to line up, but side on, as is common with a flanking tank like the Rooikat, you’ll pretty consisently only kill single crewmembers at a time, which usually gives your opponent the chance to react, either by returning fire before you reload or rolling into cover. It also limits your ability to kill when you have dodgy shots, like the tip of a turret over a hill, or the drivewheel poking around a corner.
I’m not saying it’s a good round, but having worse post pen is mitigated by having a stabilizer and APFSDS in return, which still has the benefit of velocity and penetration angles, and good mobility, which makes it a competitive pick next to a Leopard that does still rely on unstabilized APDS and no other gimmicks against a ton of vehicles that do have a stabilizer, even if the APDS has good post pen, which it doesn’t really, it wouldn’t matter if you never get to shoot first.
8.0 uptiers to 9.0 is super rough for most 8.0s that doesn’t have stab, it would often feels like you doesn’t belongs there when you encounter things like T-69IIG or hull down Chieftain MK10, even worse an Object 279, not much you can do to stay alive, but there are ways to do it, the Leopard 1 has one of the best sight zoom in 8.0, makes it a very effective long range sniper, think of what you can do to USSR T-54s and T-10M in large variant of sands of Sinai lol you will just bully those poor fellas with range finder and there isn’t much they could do unless they memorized the range else the first shot will always miss. Just stay behind cover/hill then only engage the enemies who wasn’t looking at your direction, using binocular to look around, of course
