Don’t let me bring the AMX-30 up.
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Uptier doesn’t count. It’s fine for it’s BR
Uptiers are not irrelevant.
I know it isn’t but a vehicle is expected to be a underdog in a uptier.
No one suggested otherwise, but you can’t talk up it’s mobility when it more often than not has nothing on all the vehicles its matched with.
Well that argument doesn’t hold very well.
“This tank is better but the other tank actually performs better.”
Being a better flanker is already a huge benefit.
Pretty sure the AMX 30 has more armor and having a coaxial 20mm doesn’t hurt either.
Also a traverse rate of 30°/s instead of 24°/s as well as same reverse speed as forward, which is a huge advantage when it comes to relocating and getting into a firing position.
Well, the armor is basically identical and the firepower somewhat worse but the 20mm can kill light vehicles quickly that would otherwise kill the Leopard or require to use the main gun.
So personally I’m not suprised that it would get more kills.
Now if we look again at thunderskill we see that the 8.0 tech tree variant has actually very bad stats.
Which disproves both my and your arguments 😂
but it is the only benefit, at longer range or fighting heavily armored tanks it is much worse.
the neither have enough armor to actually matter in the discussion so it is meaningless, 6 extra º/s isnt much of a chage, and the reverse speed sure it is good but the leo’s is still pretty good, and the 20mm is situational at best.
The leopard on the other hand as a much better heat, better ammo selection, better optics, slightly better depression and doesnt have a huge ass cupola
still better than the leopard 1… and it has much better win rate, not to mention the premium variant which is the exact same vehicle without the 20mm, and it also has much better stats than the leo
It has so few battles played that it’s not even worth looking at the stats.
That 4s reload speed is surely really nice, but it doesn’t have access to APDS or HEAT-FS which means it’s conventional AP round might struggle a lot against certain enemies at that BR, which is certainly far from ideal.
Lorraine 40t is a good vehicle, but requires specific playstyle for reasons mentioned above. This might be personal preference, but I’d take Leopard I over it in most cases.
My issue with AMX-30 is that it lacks APDS which is, at least from my experience, a better round than HEAT-FS, especially that one AMX has with worse ballistics.
The 20mm isn’t that useful anymore in my experience. The belt is 50/50 HVAP to HE, meaning you have the same level of firepower as a stock Marder A1 (sans Milan). And it’s worth keeping in mind that HVAP post pen and angled pen has been nerfed, making the damage output rather mediocre, and even mildly angled targets can defeat the rounds sometimes.
The muzzle flash blinds you while firing making careful aim rather tricky. The vertical traverse is also desynced from the main gun and rather slow, at only 2.8 degrees a second, meaning if you’re going over rough ground and start firing, your first burst will often go into the air or the dirt.
And since they’ve buffed barrel health, it’s now more difficult to barrel people frontally with that gun.
It’s still nice to have, but I consider the Leopard’s kit more useful, map dependant obviously.
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Just fyi, for comparison on thunderskill USA M24 chaffee has a 56% win rate and 2.45kdr, while the japanese M24 chaffee has a 69% win rate and a 2.95 kdr.
Those tanks are completely identical.
Often you’ll find minor nations get higher win rates than the big 3 even in identical tanks because more often they are played by more experienced players who have already finished a big 3 tech tree and are starting a new line.
What 9.0 MBT’s are faster?
Already said it’s silly to compare it exclusively to MBTs when it doesn’t exclusively fight MBTs.
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That applies to all MBT’s then no?
The Leo’s still one of the fastest.
8.0 just gets destroyed by uptiers. Most nations don’t go from 0 stab to single plane to two plane stabilisation, so it makes gun handling drastically different with just a 0.3 uptier.
fine if you want to move goalposts continuously, we will.
the Leopard 1 is as fast or faster than most 8.0 light tanks, (only the R3 and USH will consistently outrun it) while having vastly more armour than all of them (only the M41D is guaranteed to be .50 cal proof at all ranges, all other 8.0 light tanks can die to .50 cals, with the next lowest chance being the Marder 1A3). The Leopard 1 is obviously .50 cal proof while also being much stronger against things like 20mms from Autocannons, or SPAAs, which even the M41D is not.
It has significantly better and more consistent firepower than all of them. (only the Object 906 really comes close in terms of consistency and reliability).
It has significantly better optics than all of them.
And it can play in basically the same role as all of them. the only thing it doesn’t have is scouting.
All the 8.0 light tanks:
Object 906
Marder 1A3
R3 T106 FA
U-SH 405
M41D
AUBL/74 HVG (marketplace prem)
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Almost always the player. However in some cases it is the tank.
strong disagree on the AMX30. The 20mm is near useless. Both unable to pen most light vehicles due to HVAP’s horrific angle pen and unable to do postpen damage due to zero fragmentation on nearly all <35mm apds and hvap. Vertical traverse is near nothing, meaning that your main cannon sends the shots flying off target (something top .50s never have).
HEAT is universally worse than HEATFS for every single vehicle type for every single caliber for every single payload size. No reason why, but its how the devs have modeled HEAT for the entire game. HEATFS also has a faster projectile so easier trajectory at range. LEO also has 20% more explosive mass on its HEATFS.
The AMX30 is universally worse than the leo in everything but reverse speed.
Leo is far, far better than the lorraine. The optics on the leo allow much better long range engagement, the higher velocity rounds are much more accurate at range and the HEAT is far more lethal vs the many IFVs and MBTs you find. AP is only more effective vs russia where the higher armor values create more spalling, but then you encounter areas where 270 pen isn’t enough.
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It’s very much not. Thunderskill is not an accurate source for a vehicle’s win rates. Using it to bash German mains is as misguided as using it to say the Leopard should go down. “Because winrates low” is not an argument, only Gaijin knows the win rates.
I usually have that internal discussion with many of the vehicles I prefer at other BRs, and it might be one of my least favourite things about a game I generally love.
Of course we don’t live in an ideal world where we can somehow balance 2000 vehicles to have more or less equal chances to shine. I understand that. But I do wish the “meta”, maps and mission types included, wasn’t all about brawling at 300m.
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blablabla. you can kill light tanks no problem
doesnt matter you pretty much dead if you get hit by one or another
The AMX its way better for not having a giant ammorack in the front that goes boom. i surve shots in the AMX that i would never have in the LEO.
long range on what MAP? IMAO
You still have to capture points to win a game…
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