Where did you get that the dm23 (apdsfs that 1a1 uses) has more pen then the dm13 apds?
Well, DM23 does penetrate better at angles and high ranges, you are rarely shooting flat unangled armor. And seems to me that it also does like 3 times the damage
For me from my experience dm13 is mostly more then enough.
fair enough
Besides the fact that APFSDS does not use APDS mechanics and thus does not shatter (which happens PRETTY OFTEN with APDS) and besides the fact that APFSDS does a lot more damage than APDS…
You need to ACTUALLY LOOK at the pen charts for ammo you are discussing and NOT just glance at the 0 degree, 0 meter number for both. DM23 has almost 50% more pen at 60 degrees across the board. Both of them have NEAR IDENTICAL flat pen stats with DM23 being a single digit percentage worse. DM23 even pens MORE flat armor past 1000 meters due to having far less dropoff
95% of combat from my experience happens at distances of less then 1000 meters as you can’t really hit targets that far especially if there are moving.
I hit targets past 1000m routinely. You also didn’t at all acknowledge the bulk of what I said in the post about angled penetration, non-shattering APFSDS, or damage increase from using APFSDS.
Sorry for not acknowledging the angled pen, but never the less the Leopard 1is kinda week for 8.0 and Leopard 1A1 especially for 9.0. They should be both moved to 8.0 and 7.7 respectfully.
I dont want to be rude but you dont have any experience with any apfsds, also claiming that the 1a1a needs to be 8.0 is a wild statement
And playing the Leopard 1 I have enough knowledge to understand that the stab version with extra armor and only better pen at high angles and long range at the cost of being 1br higher doesn’t sound that amazing. And it being 8.0 might be op but it being moved down is going to be a good change.
Wait, you want A1A1 at 8.0 ?
Would be nice.
Of course it would, only for guys playing it.
cough cough T58
You’re trolling right?
wdym?
You get APFSDS, which is better in ALL SCENARIOS, seeing as how we aren’t fighting WW2 tanks anymore with flat armor, and instead are fighting tanks that ALWAYS incorporate slope armor into their design. That means, since the APFSDS has like 50% more penetration with the NORMAL AVERAGE SLOPING that every tank gets, it effectively just has 50% more penetration period. This was shown to you above with the T-55 example. Not to mention, even though I have mentioned it about 3 times now not including this time, APFSDS simply does way more damage and won’t ever destroy itself by shattering. The stabilizer also, is basically the biggest upgrade any tank ever gets in this entire game.
Name a single tank at 8.0 that the leopard a1a1 is comparable to in relative strength
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It doesnt make the a1a1 a 8.0 even if it doesnt “sound” amazing, apfsds is categorically superior to apds specially the second gen that still shatters, it’s difference does make a huge difference, also there is literally no reason for it to be lower than an t62 or m60A1 when they are worse tanks
Can name a 7.7 tank