Same with the leopard 1. It even has a better chance in uptiers compared to the AMX-30 due to the AMX only having HEAT in a BR where ERA and composite armour start to appear.
Moving a perfectly fine 8.0 tank down to 7.7 will not be good. If the leo goes down, most other 8.0s need to go down too.
Theres also the rakaten, marder/bmp, and the DF105.
The AMX 30 would need to move down to 7.7 if the leopard goes down. They are very similar, with each having advantages and disadvantages over the other.
That was my intent with that statement, though I can see where it didn’t sound like that. I was saying that, like with most tanks, the Leopard 1 can fight .3 or .7 above itself, so it being able to fight 8.0 and 8.3 vehicles currently (following that my argument is that the Leopard 1 should be at 7.7) does not mean it is actually balanced at 8.0.
Theres also the rakaten, marder/bmp, and the DF105.
I can’t speak on the Raketen, having not played it, but I can say that of the others the Df 105 is the only real good one, which I’ve mentioned before here. The Marder, in particular, ranges from useless to miserable, and the BMP, while okay, can’t really pull you through the BR. I would honestly say that the best option at 8.3 or 8.7 is the Gepard, as (when I was grinding that spot) it only required one research before it, was stabilised, and had decent penetration and general performance, and I had a great deal more success with the Gepard than with the Leopard 1.
The AMX 30 would need to move down to 7.7 if the leopard goes down. They are very similar, with each having advantages and disadvantages over the other.
From what I can see of it, that would be reasonable, and I mention in the same paragraph this statement is replying to that any tank equal or worse than the Leo should be moved down with it. This would be especially good for the French, as the AMX-30 would be in a lineup then. I haven’t seen or heard how it plays though, so I’m just taking your word on that.
And i mantain that there is no reason to lower the br of the leopard when most 8.0s are not worse than the leopard, so unless the others also goes down the leopard shouldnt.
HEAT is still better against angled armor so it surely has it’s use cases.
That’s a light tank with a 76mm dart. Post pen damage on that thing doesn’t look good.
In my opinion Leopard 1 is balanced when compared to other 8.0s. Yes, some will be better but some are also worse, so I wouldn’t touch them at all.
Decompression is needed in this BR bracket anyways, as fully stabilized tanks with LRFs and darts shouldn’t be facing unstabilized ones with APDS only.
Leopard 1 suffers from this, but sadly many others share the same faith.
T-54s are miserable, I have the Israeli 8.0 lineup which is a mix of Pattons centurion and T-54s, the Magach 6a is just an M60a1 without stab and man that thing SUCKS, and the other pattons suck as well. 8.0 is a weird br but to say that T-54s and M-48/60 are better than the Leopard 1 as you said is simply not true, then the opposite might be true actually
Magach 5 needs to have its BR switched with the M48 A2 G A2 (8.3). They are the same tank but Magach 5 gets ERA and a barely noticeable mobility difference.
It and the M48A2 GA2 are equivalents of each other. One has added protection, the other has slightly better mobility. They both have DM23, but one is lower than the other, that being the Magach.
None of them have stabs. They both have DM23 and are based on the M48 Patton. However, the Magach gets ERA, which is a huge upgrade at this BR considering the amount of vehicles that rely on HEAT, and the IFVs that can only kill tanks with shaped charges ATGMs.
But again no stab with a terrible chassis, huge slow and with lackluster armor, so both should be 8.0, after all you acknowledge they’re basically the same tank so I don’t see any reason to bring one down and other up, btw I don’t think Israel has any 8.3 tanks to go with the magach 5 if it gets up tiered
14.0 would be even better. We have a few different spots in the tech tree that are too compressed, and so far Gaijin’s “solution” has just been to shift the point of compression around to different BRs without ever actually decompressing things.
8.0s are mostly shit, one of the worst br to play IMO, and centurion with 105mm might not have been half bad because two plane stab, same weapon as Leopard 1 with better turret proteccction, the only thing that is dogshit is the sight zoom, engine feels like its using the same as m48/magach but slightly slower.