Yeah I always regarded L7 APDS to be pretty good, surely better than similar HEAT.
Some lower caliber APDS like 76mm ones are glorified APCRs and APDS from UK heavies are also troublesome.
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No one is taking an M47 over a Leopard 1.
Thats a huge reach
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At least in a T54 or M60, a fucking falcon or XM800T won’t completely destroy your team
i mean if your team gets destroyed by a XM800T thats on you and even then it still doesnt make either the m60 ot the t54 better than the leopard. They are worse tanks overall.
Of course italian M47 armed with the same gun and 7.7.
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So one fast rat tank flanking our entire team and then killing all of us before we even have time to stop and stabilize is our problem? Ever wonder why the Wiesel 1A4 (similar rat tank with the same gun) and the Gepard (same gun as many other TD SPAAs) have lower KDRs than similar vehicles in different countries?
You can easily kill it, use your heat.
First, even using the from the thunder skills the kd of the xm800t and the wisel are not that far off just by 0.5, and since the xm800t is a higher br it also sees far more thanks with less armor and people usually use it as a first spawn so the difference is not that high.
Second, the gepard have around the same kd as other spaag with the same guns even better than some , only the itpsv and the za35 do better, and thats because how much mobile they are, which also shows you how important mobility is.
Mistakes on the KDR stats, my information was a bit older. But let’s be honest, German lower top tier needs some more armored tanks, copy and pasted soviet tanks for east germany is fine
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which also shows you how important mobility is.
It’s a lot more important when you’re stabilised. Those vehicles are both all stabilised and all have autocannons. With the main gun of a tank, if you’re not stabilised then speed only helps in getting to good positions, and that only works if you have significantly better mobility than your enemy (not just somewhat better mobility, but significantly).
As it stands now, there is literally no reason that I can see to use the Leopard 1 instead of the Df 105 (which has better mobility, the same gun, a much faster reload, and equally useless armour), unless, I suppose, you prefer APDS over HEATFS, but it would be a pretty hard sell to play a worse tank for that.
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I’m not saying they are, though it’s not as big a reach as you might think; the insane turret traverse on it gives it very good responsiveness. I mentioned the M47 because it is a tank at a similar BR to the Leopard 1 that I have experience in, and that could be used to compare armours.
For the purposes of the post you’re responding to, imagine they’re two vehicles at the same BR with the only difference being armour. I mentioned it because it doesn’t have awesome armour, and will only ever bounce or block full calibre rounds at 8.0 if the enemy is inept, but the armour is still much more useful than the Leo’s because it protects it from autocannons. Therefor, it was useful and relevant to the point I was making when used as a comparison.
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The thing is that the leopard have significantly better mobility than many 8.0 such as centurions, m60s, t54s, so the mobility is quite important
there are reasons aside from the apds, you get a better heat on the leopard, you get a rangefinder, better optics, better depression, youre .50 cal proof, and even if the df 105 was better, it doesnt mean that it need to go down in br to just “sell” the tank, sure there are vehicles that are better than the leopards but there are still plenty of vehicles than are worse than it.
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Then why does the OF40, basically the Leopard at the same BR gets a LRF?
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Sorry for necroposting, but most of the time, by the time your gun stabilizes on an enemy, more than likely, you’re already dead
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That won’t matter if you can’t get to a spot because the hordes of light tanks that are smaller, faster, more stabilised, and can melt you with ease with their autocannons decide you are not longer allowed to exist. While the mobility is good for manoeuvring in the moment, it’s mainly the reverse gear that’s important for that sort of thing, and most tanks have at least a passable reverse speed at this BR.
Positioning on the wider scale of a full map is not only dependent on surviving the trek, which is difficult when IFVs and light tanks move at least as quickly as you and can kill you far more easily than you can kill them. This is assuming you have a large enough map for that to matter at all, which is increasingly more rare as War Thunder shifts to favour more CQC maps (which the Leopard 1, everyone should agree, is particularly unsuited for).
you get a better heat on the leopard
The penetration is the same. The only difference that I could see when I checked an hour or two ago was that the Df 105 fires a regular HEAT round, rather than HEATFS. Perhaps that makes a difference in damage; if it does, it is easily made up by the reload speed. As stated before, firing at range is increasingly less needed in War Thunder, so a lower velocity shell, provided it meets a baseline level of usability, is not that great a detriment.
I cannot think of any situation where I have needed more magnification than the Df 105’s that wasn’t one of the huge top-tier maps that assume everyone has a LRF and APFSDS, so the magnification and rangefinder, while something to note, are not very significant a difference.
Most other countries have more options to choose from. If the Leopard 1 was not Germany’s only medium tank at that BR range (not counting the Turm III, as that is an entirely new conversation), there is no choice but to play it. By contrast, other countries tend to have meaningful alternatives (in the Leopard 1 you have only the Marder 1, which is even more useless than it, the Df 105, which I have already described, and the Gepard, which, while good, fills a different role in the lineup) or else can take multiple variations of the same tank/tank concept to fill out their lineup.
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Because of br compression… again, there are more vehicles at 8.0 than just the of40.
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Simply dont play the leopard as a light tank, first you dont need to as you do have the penetration to engage targets from the front and second the leopard works better at longer ranges.
Buddy the only advantageous thing about the mobility of the leopard isnt just the reverse gear which btw MOST tanks in this br doesnt get anywhere close to that of the leopard, the leopard simply have better reveers than all of your enemies mbt with the exception of the amx 30 and the of 40, literally all of the other have 11.3 km/h or less, you have way higher Hp/t and much better top speed than all of mbt discounting again the of40 and amx 30 which you allows you to outmanouver them easily, even If light tanks are faster that doesnt mean that you dont keep having that advantage over them, so dont try to donwplay its importance.
youre acting like a mx 800 can melt you down you from the front, you can kill him way more easily than he does, and if he gets in to your flank then thats on you, again you are acting like there is no counterplay to fast ifv unless you have armor and thats no the case, youre just being hyperbolic for the sake of argument.
you cannot argue that having better mobility than the tanks with the same or worse firepower is not an advantage.
It id much faster and have a larger explosive mass, which btw the being faster also helps you at targetting those fast lights tanks that youre constantly complaining as you will need to lead way less.
Says who? MOST maps you can still figthing at longer ranges, even after the changes, in those you still have the advantage of the better round with the rangefinder
Most maps do allow you to play at longer ranges there is just a few that doesnt (The ones with the blue mark can be played at longer ranges).
half the maps you marked are maps made mostly for CQC (Alaska, Iberian, Test Site, Seversk, Normandy, Finland, vietnam, etc). And a lot of the other maps can have long range sniping, but most people will focus in the urban area, or all objectives and common routes are within a CQC area. Now, the remaining maps, (big sinai, mozdok, fire ark) will make you suffer from LRFs, thermals, and scout drones as gaijin will always uptier you or downtier someone else. Plus, most of the time, gaijin will put you in CQC because of course modern tanks should fight in close quarter combat in a situation where tanks would never be used.
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All of those maps basically have 2/3 of the maps completely open only the central part of the map is actually CQC, Iberian castle A and C flags and bascially all the ones that you mention are completely open on those flags, so no they are not CQC maps.
I don’t really see how maps like Alaska, Test Site, Seversk are CQC maps tho. The majority of the map is in a CQC setting, and the non CQC settings are usually very open or with lots of uneven terrain (nightmare or heaven for the leopard 1)
the A flag on seversk is open and at the south and north of b, A is also quite open intest site, also in between b and c and at the right of c
In alaska a and c is wide open