Even increasing it to 12.3 to match what Air is currently at (that they didn’t do this while adding Rank VIII is pure incompetence) would massively improve the general balance of top tier.
You are still arguing that tanks with higher BRs than the Leopard are better than the leopard as an excuse it should go down.
The leopard 1 was bonkers OP at 7.3. it should have always been 7.7, then the BR decompression happened and everything gained 0.3, so they nerfed it the additional 0.3 to its rightful spot at 8.0 then.
Its winrate is because German Mains exist. The stereotype is unfortunately very much real.
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Yeah and if I want to play French auto-loader I play French auto-loader.
You’re kinda repeating yourself. Not really sure what that kind of statement has to do with the discussion.
It’s not a skill issue to say “This vehicle sucks because it’s only good in 25% of the matches”.
The Raketenjagdpanzer is also the best vehicle in the world when you get a few specific maps that allow you play from some hull down positions. That doesn’t really make the vehicle much useful though.
That’s why I don’t like the Leopard. It’s not a “oh I’m gonna play this vehicle now” vehicle.
It’s a “I should really play another vehicle on this map” kind of vehicle.
A vehicle can be on paper be way worse than another, but it doesn’t matter when 80% of the maps favour a specific playstyle where the other vehicle is better.
Same story with armor penetration. A gun that can kill 80% of vehicles 100% of the time is still better than a gun that kills 100% of vehicles 50% of the time.
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You’re bringing up tanks with distinct negatives / positives over the Leo 1 without explaining why it’s relevant to the Leo 1’s BR performance.
The Leopard 1 is playable on any map in the game.
The Raketen’s firepower is what makes it useful.
The Leopard 1 is playable on any map in the game.
Welcome to War Thunder map design is awful it does not improve the higher in BR you go in fact it gets much worse.
The Leopard 1 can frontally penetrate with relative ease any tank it can face at its BR and in a full uptier. I do not understand this complaint.
Its winrate is because German Mains exist.
Oh dear god, leave this stupid narrative on the subreddit with the US players.
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Leopard I is unironically one of the best 8.0 MBTs in the game, I mean just take a look at M60s, T-54s and their copies.
In my opinion, only two 8.0 MBTs that are better than Leopard I are OF-40 and Vickers Mk.1.
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I much prefer the APDS on the STB/Type 74 (C). They’re both very solid vehicles at 8.3. The Type 74 is better but not enough for it to go up, or the STB to go down in BR.
it’s relevant because these vehicle are able to do a lot of damage with what they are good at.
Mostly at being more aggresive or active than the Leopard.
They all have weak armor but they can dish out more damage.
When you’re flanking in a Leo 1 you’re not going to kill a vehicle every 4.0s, nor will you be able to accurately fire on the move.
A Maus can be played more aggressive than a Leopard. No one is sitting back and sniping with a Maus, because switching from a defensive position to acting aggressive would simply take too much time.
You need to contribute to your team and an aggresive vehicle is generally never bad because being offensive wins the game.
But apparently there are better options.
Played doesn’t mean effective. You take a vehicle with specific strenghts and put it into an enviroment where it can’t use them and it becomes underwhelming.
Yeah that’s why we keep complaining about it :)
The complaint is that the Vickers lacks HEAT-FS and the French don’t even have APDS, which means even less armor penetration. However →
They make up for that by having increased firepower with greater RoF or even a stabilizer.
This firepower increase is worth much more than what the Leopard offers as a whole.
Obviously but it’s the sum of all the parts that matter and the Leopard is simply not standing out compared to a lot of other vehicles.
The mobility of the Leopard is just nothing special compared to how many other fast vehicles can be encountered at 8.0.
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mostly because German players go straight to it from the Tigers and expect it to play the same. It’s not a problem with the tank, it’s a problem with the players.
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Oh geez, first the problem with the Tigers supposedly is that everyone gets into the Tigers too fast and now they go too fast from the Tigers into the Leopards?
Pretty sure people have spend a pretty fair amount of time in the game before they get the Leopard and there is a whole rank separating them, by what logic would anyone expect them to work the same and somehow not learn after a few games?
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Leopard isn’t standing out when compared to Vickers Mk.1 or OF-40, but if you compare it to most other 8.0s it surely holds it’s ground pretty well.
Bottom line is, if vehicles like T-54s or M60s can stay at 8.0, Leo I sure as hell can as well.
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Yes? That is the problem. A lot of new players flock to Germany because of it’s iconic tanks, the Tiger and Leopard being some of the most iconic ever. Ergo, lots of bad players playing them and a) not having lineups and/or b) just not being very good at the game
Not really… You need 6 Rank 4 vehicles before you can get the Leopard, and that could easily be the 2 Tiger IIs, 2 AAs, and 2 Panthers. Doubly as easy now that stuff foldered is cheaper (so you can get 1 Panther and 2 more half-price Panthers, essentially.
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Yes? That is the problem. A lot of new players flock to Germany because of it’s iconic tanks, the Tiger and Leopard being some of the most iconic ever. Ergo, lots of bad players playing them and a) not having lineups and/or b) just not being very good at the game
Oh yes, something something history channel… yada yada Wittmann.
Not really… You need 6 Rank 4 vehicles before you can get the Leopard, and that could easily be the 2 Tiger IIs, 2 AAs, and 2 Panthers. Doubly as easy now that stuff foldered is cheaper (so you can get 1 Panther and 2 more half-price Panthers, essentially.
And somehow by this point these players do not understand the difference between a Tiger and a Leopard? And despite these people supposedly playing the game specifically for these vehicles, they have zero clue about what kind of tank it is and somehow think a cold war era Leopard 1 is identical to a 1940s heavy tank from WW2?
ok.
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Leo, T-54 and M60 are kinda the old guard :)
I mean the balance here doesn’t make a lot of sense.
The T-54’s blow, but the Chinese Type 59’s are decent (vert stab + LRF) and the Type 69 is the best 8.0 hands down (full stab + LRF + APDSFS).
It’s fine at 8.0, the AMX-30 is a worse tank, but its also 8.0
I didn’t think this thread would go this far lol
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Germany truly suffers.
I hate APDS in general, after the last rework they are awfully inconsistent. I had way more fun in my Japanese M47, not even mentioning Soviet 8.3)
Leo is literally the gold standard of 8.0 tanks. Try the T54s or the AMX30 if you want bad 8.0 tanks.
The problem is still the 8.7 tanks beating up on everything below them even after the last attempt at ‘decompression’ by only a 1 BR shift. With tons of 8.7s and nearly no 7.7s, the 8.0s get upteired all the time.