Yes, because it’s a pointless argument to limit the comparison to other MBTs when the matches aren’t limited to other MBTs… I can be a good fighter for my weight class but if heavy weights are allowed to participate it doesn’t mean anything.
And yes they are up to 1 BR higher, that doesn’t stop them from matching with the Leo.
So you are saying the 8.0 Leopard 1 as an MBT is just as fast as a bunch of 8.0-9.0 wheeled light tanks, while also having more armour than all of them, while running rings around other MBTs at its tier (many of which also dont get stabs btw) and an equivalent gun to all of them, is somehow overtiered compared to all those other vehicles?
No, those other vehicles are generally faster which will nullify most of that speed advantage, assuming the linear map design doesn’t already… and whilst mobility is nice, it doesn’t really guarantee kills or anything, especially not with the lack of a stabilizer and the excessive zoom causing massive swaying of the barrel.
More armor probably, but cardboard is also thicker than paper, it can be a bit trolly though which is really more valuable than the actual armor.
It might run rings around a few other MBTs… the Centurion as you say, but that has a stabilizer.
Maybe a T-55A, but that has a lot more armor and also a stabilizer and APFSDS.
HEAT-FS works against thick armor that isn’t composite.
APDS works when the shell size is over 100mm, in the case of the Leo 1 it is.
The tank is very effective in terms of firepower.
It’s faster than the majority of MBTs at its BR range.
It has superb firepower for its BR.
It outclasses its contemporaries in terms of mobility.
No tank at its BR range is commonly using thermals.
Stabilizers are the one true negative of the tank but that’s why you get to be 8.0
What MBT at 7.3 - 8.7 is faster than the Leopard 1
The Leo 1 was always meh.
It has strenghts but they don’t mean much nowadays.
I’m mean how did the Lorraine 40t went from, what, 6.7 to 7.7?
The Leopard went from 7.7 to 7.3 and now 8.0 while the Lorraine stayed the at 7.7, a fast medium tank that can’t rely on armor.
The Leopard needs to be played like a long range ambush sniper, which isn’t possible most of the time.
The Lorrain is a flanking brawler that demolish targets in seconds.
The Leopard has amazing shell velocity and high penetration, which again, great at range but that rarely happends and penetration is overrated.
Why have high penetration when you can have enough penetration but kill targets more quickly?
Fast light vehicles counter the Leopards speed advantage on the battlefield while slower but better armored vehicles are tougher for the light tanks to take out.
I loved the Vickers MBT at 7.7 with that 5s reload but now the Leo without stab is on the same BR despite a longer reload. Sure the mobility is better but 5s reload stabilized APDS is just such a big boost in firepower that it’s hardly comparable.
What the Leopard 1 needs is a RoF buff to 5s just like the Vickers MBT.
It was given its historical reload rate.
Every MBT moved up when that BR change occurred. The french 7.7s used to be 7.3
It was a rhetorical question.
It’s firepower, ability to brawl and generally being able to play by the meta.
Worse mobility, worse gun depression
If you wish to play the French autoloaders then do so
The Leopard 1 is an extremely effective early MBT and it has a very good lineup.
Yes but ALL those wheeled light tanks are higher BRs to compensate! It doesnt matter if it can see them, the Leopard can see 7.0s and they cant. They have to fight 9.7s or 10.0s and the leopard doesnt. Stop trying to argue that the Leopard is over tiered because higher tiered vehicles are shockingly stronger than it ffs
And practically none of them are .50.cal proof, the Leopard is. Thats a major difference.
The zoom is a skill issue, its a much better asset than a liability.
It runs rings around ALL the other MBTs except maybe the AMX 30, and the T-55A is 8.3.
Yeah but that doesn’t make up lack of stab, as well as the general firepower incrase of a faster reload.
Not only can the Vickers move into a position while always being able to immediatly react to a threat, it can destroy tanks faster by needing less time to aim and reloading faster.
This firepower increase meant that the odds of surviving multiple tank encounters are massively increased while the Leopard needs to use his ability to fire on the enemy first.
Not every tank can have everything.
You shouldn’t be trying to go CQC with the Leo 1 anyway.
STB doesn’t even have a HEAT shell, it isn’t a good tank at 8.3 with only APDS and HESH.
The tank is very effective in terms of firepower.
Even if it was, it’s not unique.
It’s faster than the majority of MBTs at its BR range.
Who get stabilizers or armor in it’s place.
It has superb firepower for its BR.
UK gets the same APDS + HESH + stabilizer with the latter probably not good atm because who knows why.
Rooikat at 8.3 gets stabilizer, mobility and APFSDS
Russia has T-55A with APFSDS, 390mm HEATFS + APDS.
T-54 APDS, HEATFS 380mm.
US has APDS and HEATFS on the M60s.
M103 has HEATFS.
If everyone has superb firepower than no one has, and almost all of these either get a stabilizer or armor, sometimes both.
It outclasses its contemporaries in terms of mobility.
Overrated feature and matched outclassed by many.
No tank at its BR range is commonly using thermals.
At 9.0 that’s not uncommon, unless if we count the VIDAR of course which is 8.0 god knows why.
Stabilizers are the one true negative of the tank but that’s why you get to be 8.0
You get to be 8.0 because it has some mobility and not much else that makes its special, even at 7.3 it barely had a positive k/d… it now sits at like 40% winrate on top.
Yeah you should get into a position and defend and let your team lose because you can’t be aggressive enough to win.
The Leopard is a defensive tank. It’s great for getting into a position and then using range and terrain.
That doesn’t help your team capture a point though or push them back.
Of course the Vickers can also play that role to a degree but it way more effective at switching from defensive to offensive.
It’s not outclassed by any MBT at its BR nor matched other than the AMX-30.
The Leopard 1 is 8.0 not 9.0
If you want to play the UK play the UK
Much slower tanks.
100mm gun worse post penetration damage worse mobility.
Welcome to “MBTs” everyone has everything so it becomes flavors rather than distinct choices.
Germany has access to the DF105 and Raketenautomat at 8.0, if you’re taking your sniper in to CQC while having two of the best CQC fighters at the BR range that is an unfortunate skill issue.
If you want to play the UK play the UK
All you can do is deal with it, the brbis so compress and Gaijin still don’t want to spread it out, I think increase the maximum br to 14.0 like the April fool event will solve any br problem at least for 2-3 years