Since drakunite challenged Thodin for a top 10 8.0s I’ve been digging and discovered Italy also cucks U.S as well, the 8.0 M60 DC Ariete is better than the US 8.0 M60 with the revised turret and more importantly it gets M728 APDS.
Edit: the magach 5 has M111 Hetz APFSDS at 8.0 what even is this BR
yes, all good points really. I was gunna type it up in similar fashion… but ugh. instead i asked him to list the top ten 8.0 tanks
again, all points i thought and was gunna type out, but… seems like a lot of work to end up at:
“The OF-40 is still probably overall better than the Leopard, but the difference is pretty minor.”
but yup, agreed to all
The niche minor nations of Israel and China have some bizarre BR placements around here due to the relative lack of players (as well as Gaijin being unwilling (or unable to) balance vehicles without data). So you have stuff like the stabilized, LRF equipped Type 69 sharing a BR with the base model T54s, and several objectively superior versions of the M60 at it’s own tier. Yeah, it’s a mess.
To clarify my opinion, the OF40 is overall better than the Leopard. The LRF is a sizable advantage, and the other stats are all close enough to not make much of a difference. However, I don’t agree that the difference is so great that the OF40 needs to move up, or the Leo 1 to move down, as I’ve seen people argue.
If I were ranking the 8.0 MBTs that I’ve played, it would be OF40, approximately tied with the Vickers Mk1, followed closely after by the Leopard, then more of a gap for the AMX-30, then the Cent, and the rest further. Though I’ve never played China or Israel, so those might be in there somewhere.
lol… you already way Over clarified… i understood that from one sentence in your previous message, let alone the 3 other paragraphs… but sureeee… more infooooo
I’ve played both, OF-40 is much better protected.
I’ve also played both, and I found no real discernable difference between them. Anything that can kill one, can kill the other. The only real difference is that autocannons have a slightly easier time with the Leopard (due to the angled corner plates), while the OF-40’s mantlet is nowhere near as trolly as the Leopard 1’s.
I recently finished using the Leopard 1 and Br 8.0 didn’t seem bad to me compared to others of the same Br thanks to its barrel and speed. What causes problems with it are some disastrous factors created by the developers. The first disaster would be the small maps with a large number of obstacles, which force you to fight at close range at all times, which creates a huge advantage for tanks with stabilizers. And what seemed to me the most disastrous and that really affects to all the Br 8.0, is that you are always fighting the Br 8.3, 8.7 and to a slightly lesser extent 9.0, which means that with the leopard 1 you are continually facing more modern tanks, with APDS-FS and stabilizer and even almost invulnerable frontally like the T-55AM-1, and all this in a closed map where the stabilizer makes an extreme difference. All this would be solved with larger maps, better balanced and above all separating the Br more, so that some that now They are in Br 7.7 and Br 8.0 will be separated from the 8.3 but above all the 8.7 and 9.0, which are the ones that really have too much advantage over the 8.0.
It’s less trolly than the Leopard 1’s armour, at least from my experience.
According to your stats, it is.
Regardless, stata are a poor gauge of a vehicle’s inherent qualities. I would assume the VK has poor stats as well despite being a great tank; you are shifting up BRs and going to a completely different playstyle than Germany’s slow, heavily armoured WW2 lineup.
Sure buddy.
Stats are a poor gauge of a vehicle’s inherent qualities.
Yeah, but these stats don’t exist in a vacuum, nothing about the Leopards qualities would suggest it’s the best tank at 8.0.
Leo 1 could go to 7.7.
Dunno, when the majority of WT maps won’t support the strenght of this tank (sniping, area control)…I wouldn’t consider it a good vehicle. I always judge it with the ingame mechanics in mind. Wenn 90% of the maps are brawling ones with short LOS and alot corners…well I won’t like to play an unstabilzed Leopard tank without armor. The next autocannon speeder just shreds you from any side at these low ranges. Before you manage to stop for an aimed shot.
To be fair, the Swedish premium Leopard is a 1A5, but the Leopard 1 is still good.
I still use the 1A5NO at 10.0
Or get a reload buff to have the same RoF like the Vickers. Same with the M60 😏
They buffed the M48 reload, which is nice, but it should have been 5s reload time.
And that RoF is absolutely what these vehicle should have.
I am not an advocate of changing reload times etc to cater to various issues with other parts of the game.
I advocate for vehicles having realistic RoFs and therefore performance that closely resembles RL.
Like glorious T-34 1941 is now 4.0 compared to a 1944 Pz IV at 3.7.
T-34 in 1941 had armor, mobility and penetration but definately not RoF.
Based on the Pz IV the T-34 should reload in 12-18s but it’s barely slower, making it much better than it should be.
A Leopard 1 is also much worse than it should be when it should have a much better RoF.
RoF = Firepower
T-54 => Armor, penetration, good mobility. RoF? Definately not the strongest when having to load 30kg AP rounds in a smaller turret.
The Leopard or M60 should be clearly superior vehicles to the T-54, yet again Gaijin treats glorious Soviet tanks that existed years before their adversaries like they are equal or better.
Of course the gameplay elements play a role as well, like dealing damage and survivability but in general BR decide a efficency and vehicles get changed all the time.
One day a vehicle sucks, the next day it’s broken because of a damage buff to ammunition.
You put a T-62 with stabilized 115mm against a Leopard or M60 and you get a fair fight.
A stabilized gun with lower RoF vs. more mobile vehicles with better RoF.
Nowadays 105mm APDS has both excellent penetration and damage, while in the past a angled T-54 could easily survive getting hit from a round. Not anymore.
Both eat T-54 for breakfast in long range maps though
I would just like correct reload speeds, not adjusted ones.