Leopard 1 is way too weak at 8.0

Stabilizers become meaningless when everything you fight is similarly stabilized

I mean it’s no longer an advantage but having it stops you from being disadvantaged, like the Leopard.

The Leo is in the same ballpark speedwise as most of these

Even if it would be, it’s far outclassed in all other aspects by these vehicles and you can’t use your mobility against them because it’s negated and they’ll happily shoot you from 50km/h with their stabilizes, laser rangefinders, thermals and APFSDS.

It requires a more passive playstyle

Which directly contradicts it’s supposedly main advantage of mobility however, which isn’t an advantage as much as it’s competitive in this category.

You will never see a Type 16 if you are playing a Leopard 1 in an 8.0 lineup, Type 16 is 9.3.

Ah right, more overtiered Japanese garbage, used to 8.7 which somehow is 9.3 now shooting AFPDS from the '70s in a modern vehicle because reasons.

by the way, comparing a vehicle to other vehicles that are higher in BR than it is stupid.

Not when that was the whole point.

So unless you have the best vehicles at all BR’s the game is bad and unplayable?

1 br is bad for you? and you suspect that every other player in the game has amazing vehicles at all br’s?

Or is this the first time you have had to deal with not having the best of every criteria?

This whole rhetoric of “its not the best at it’s br” or “1 vehicle does 1 thing better than me therefore its unplayable” mentality drives me fkin nuts.

Maybe play the vehicle better, it may have downsides to it, but its not unplayable and frankly - you should create a method whereby it does work to its strengths.

No different from any other vehicle in that sense.

imagine 150,000 players all expecting their vehicle or nation to be the best at any given br - it aint possible. I could play literally any vehicle ingame and point out that another vehicle does something better but it is irrelevant.
I’m off to play my shermans against tigers (and not complain).

fyi: leo is low profile, fast, good turret speed, amazing optics/zoom, depression and has a good gun with high pen apds - that not enough? you need lots of armour also? how about a laserbeam?

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You do realize the Type 16 FPS was horrifically undertiered at 8.7?

There’s a Type 16 P which a worse version of it, and with the nerf to the M775 and the blackhole that is 10.3 you’re permanently uptiered using an 8.3/8.7 shell in 10.3 matches on a mediocre platform.

Neither of them is performing well when your main gimmick is thermals.

This is the P.

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And the FPS

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only thing I’ll say is that this is not true and is a common misconception.

That was… WAY before they tried changing the M48’s BR lol, pretty sure anyway

Pretty sure it’s not… you had the M48 and a BMP or something vs UK+US with pretty stacked lineups whilst Germany was mostly fighting with Tiger lls.

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Have you played that tank? because it’s one of my favorites and it’s an abuse in 8.3. Turning is its weak point because of the wheels.

However, that still doesn’t justify the exact same tank being a lower BR in the German tree compared to the American tree.

ive played it and i also enjoy it, its just that its post pen is the main issue in my experience

I think it does? Vehicles are balanced on performance, it’s performing a lot worse because it’s getting dunked on by significantly better vehicles opposed to what the American M48 is fighting, how is it fair to have two vehicles at the same BR but one is fighting cold war vehicles and the other is fighting WW2 vehicles mostly?

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Type 16P and FPS are copy paste, they’re the same vehicle.

Then theres the Type 16 at 9.7 which is also copy paste, but it gets the Type 93 round which is much better than M735.

Are you sure

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You seem to think mobility requires you to charge headlong into the map and scrap it out in close range with other flankers. But that’s not the only way to use it. Mobility can also be used to rush into a great long range sniper position in time to pick off the enemies on their way into the map. You can use it to pull back from a precarious position and into a safer and more effective spot as the map progresses. And, when you know it’s safe, you can use it to exploit a vulnerable flank and get into an aggressive position in cover to ambush people from an unexpected angle.

Yeah, with maps that look like this, all that flanking and traveling.

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Again, bad maps are bad maps, it’s a related but ultimately seperate issue that won’t be fixed by artificially buffing snipers, but by reworking these maps to actually have some gameplay variety.

I don’t know where I said anything about ‘artificial buffs’.
Just think the whole ‘sniper’ argument is weak when maps have never been good for it and you can still snipe without good optics, it’s the same issue Germany has with it’s WW2 lineup where people can keep saying they’re good at sniping, but the entire game is about CQC and contesting zones.

Because they are the same vehicle. It is not balanced or fair for the same vehicle to be different BRs just because one is in a different tree.

Yeah the matchmaking isn’t balanced, but things shouldn’t be balanced based on the matchmaking they get because the matchmaking can change at any time.

Type 69 hands down. Soviet armour scheme with a full stab, LRF and stock APFSDS at 8.0? Yes.