Sho’t Kal Alef? It’s just a Cent Mk 10 with less armour.
Vickers Mk. 1 is better, but that might be personal preference.
Yeah it has less armor but the HEAT-FS round is pretty nice tbh, great for BMPs and other Lights. But again, the difference is really personal preference. And I completely forgot about the Vickers. It is good, probably on par with the Leo
Oh, didn’t realise it had HEAT-FS. Normally I prefer 105mm APDS at that BR anyway. Okay, I could see that being a decent pick then.
And yeah, Vickers is pretty similar to the Leopard – Vickers trades some reduced mobility for better reload and stab.
I’d probably take the Vickers Mk.1:
Firepower is the same.
Turret handling is the better.
Reload is several seconds faster which is massive.
Fully stabilized is another major advantage.
It’s acceleration is a bit lackluster but it has decent mobility and decent reverse to not be a downside.
Type 69, nice… is an underappreciated vehicle.
A T-54 but just better but also at the same BR, being fully stabilized, APFSDS and a laser rangefinder on a platform with pretty serious armor that will stop almost all conventional AP shells.
OF-40 is just a Leopard with a laser rangefinder and better armor without really compromising anything.
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If it was so bad then how come people were clearly playing it? Tiger IIs don’t get dragged to 7.3 if no one plays that BR. They get to stay at their own BR.
Nobody said it was ‘so bad’ and people were playing it because there was nothing else to play at those BRs, you get a Leopard 1 and a BMP.
every MBT at that BR either has either/ or
They either match the Leopard or having something else to compensate for it at which they beat the Leopard, there aren’t really things that are objectively worse than the Leopard and cannot compete with it.
I remember when Gaijin only wanted to downtier the German M48 (to 7.0), which was in its own right better than the American one (which was staying either 7.7 or 7.3, I cannot recall), simply because “the stats”.
And it’s insane people still refuse to acknowledge why that was and still uphold this disingenuous believe that German players were just bad, I believe even Gaijin explained this to players.
I’ll pull up a comment from people who did figure this out years ago for you.
Tl;dr Germany got dunked on by US+UK matchmaking whilst completely lacking a cold war lineup.
Its a legacy BR change that made sense at the time due to allied versus axis matchmaking and the state of GRB at that time.
Germany had like 3-4 tanks at 7.0-7.7 as the marders, DF105 etc werent in game yet, and thus was fairly weak. So german players mostly played the 6.7 WW2 lineup. Meanwhile the French, US and especially the Brits were very strong at 6.7 7.3 7.7 and absolutely stomped, especially the centurions were spammed to oblivion and allied teams at 7.x usually had 70-85% winrates.
Due to allied vs axis matchmaking this caused US M48s to mostly fight Tiger IIs which they easily countered. While German M48s mostly fought stabilised APDS slinging vickers and centurions which countered the M48 easily.
Thus the german M48 had shit stats due to what it faced at that time and its BR was lowered which imo made sense. This is pretty similar as to why the German captured T-34 is so good at 4.0, because it doesnt face german guns.
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It was pretty absurd though.
It also only went up by 0.3 effectively anyway. That BR change I linked was a decompression change. Almost everything in the BR range went up by 0.3 as well, so the Leos 0.7 increase was only effectively a one step nerf.
right, im saying the Other guy was arguing about the Absurd part… but i dunno, hes just a leopard hater/ignorant.
The Vickers is certainly a competitor for best overall 8.0 MBT, but you’re underselling it’s disadvantages. It cannot compete with the Leo in a pure sniping role due to it’s lesser mobility, worse gun depression, worse optics and no rangefinder. It also lacks a HEAT round, which is much more reliable for overpressure at longer ranges than the HESH round the Vickers gets.
The stabilizer and reload advantage make the Vickers better in an active flanking role, and certainly a competitive tank, but it’s not as cut and dry as saying one is straight up better than the other.
Never played the Type 69, so I can’t really say for sure, but it seems to have the single weakest APFSDS round in the game, worse than post nerf M773 and even 3BM25. I’d honestly probably prefer the APHE, especially in downtiers. You’re also overselling the armor, it’s standard T-54/55. Good, certainly, but not AP proof by any means. Any AP/APHE round stronger than M82 can get through the turret front either side of the gun without problem.
This is a compression issue. The OF-40 is better than the Leopard in balance, but not so much better to be comparable to things like the STB-2 or even the M48A2 GA2. The OF-40’s rangefinder advantage is only really noticable on particularly long range maps, and the Leopards slightly better mobility and conventional rangefinder make the difference fairly minimal in comparison.
Ultimately, I’d consider the Leopard, OF-40 and Vickers as the top three MBTs at 8.0 currently, with the Type 69 as a trailing forth. There are certainly much weaker tanks, like the standard T-54s and the M60.
Off topic a little, how was T-54 1949 when it was 7.3? I was still an arcade main during that time, that thing was like the Object 279 full downtier lol at least in arcade, don’t know what I was missing out in RB.
lol wut… sure it was Good, but comparing it to a object 279 is crazy…
and then an obj 279 in a FULL down tier is absurd
From memory, it was strong, but nowhere near 279 levels. The turret weakspot was well known and weak enough that almost anything could deal with it frontally even in a full downtier, and the poor gun handling made it not super obnoxious on the flanks. Whole lotta HEAT rounds at that tier too, even back in the day, and the cramped nature of the T-54s made them very vulnerable to HEAT.
It was admittedly very fun to bully Tiger II players who had no idea what they were doing, but the same held true of tanks like the Ho-Ri. It deserved the uptier (Especially when it got to bully 76 Jumbos as well), but the compression at it’s new BR is kinda the opposite problem.
Performance wise in its respective br it wasn’t very far as I observed, at least in arcade, in a full downtier you only has a credit card size turret cheek for some of them to pen as the entire hull is near impenetrable, then you can abuse the hull traverse doing that wiggle thing during the reload to make the enemies miss the shots that those weakspots become non-existent, it’s super effective, maybe due to bad netcode.
nah, object 279 was wayyyyyyyyy better
i just played mine :P
cannot compete with the Leo in a pure sniping role
I honestly don’t know why people are always talking about sniping as if it’s this is a core part of the game and not as if maps aren’t tiny little playgrounds where you don’t have a LoS of 400m on average or that you need super optics to shoot 1km away.
I rarely use HEATFS myself these days unless I’m forced to and it always sucks, but I do believe HESH is also bad if not worse.
it seems to have the single weakest APFSDS round in the game.
Might also be the lowest BR where you can get APFSDS, the Aubl HVG gets it, but 60mm APFSDS has worse post pen than 30mm APDS because reasons, still having LRF and fully stabilized with half decent armor makes for a potent vehicle.
At least a small group of users also appears to be doing well in it.
Ultimately, I’d consider the Leopard, OF-40 and Vickers as the top three MBTs at 8.0 currently.
Ultimately they all get dunked on in an 8.3, 8.7 or 9.0 game and are completely outclassed, the Vickers remains the most competitive with it’s stabilizer at least which is why I’d easily place that over the Leopard which is only good at 8.0, as it’s mobility is even more irrelevant at higher BRs.
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Not denying it lol, this is one of the best vehicle stat I’ve ever seen, but the same player also has 5.0 KDR in most of his top tier vehicles
I compare vehicles in their intended roles, or the roles they excel in. The fact that sniping maps are becoming less common is a seperate issue, one that impacts snipers, but one that needs to be addressed by readding those sniper focused maps, not by shuffling snipers down in BR to positions they absolutely do not belong.
Besides, Germany 8.0 has a fairly expansive (if no terribly varied) lineup, on maps that aren’t as good for sniping, you can take the Auto Raketen or DF-105 flanking, you can abuse the hulldown performance of the Raketen, or scout with the Marder 1A3 or Wiesel. There’s a serious lack of a brawling tank, but that’s an issue across many lines, not just Germany.
HEAT has two advantages over APDS at this tier. It has more pen, so it can deal with the occasional well played IS-4 a bit easier, and it can overpressure, which is very useful for vehicles like the M901, since hitting their launcher with HEAT often oneshots them. HESH can do the same thing, it’s just much harder to aim due to it’s massively lower velocity. Does overpressure more reliably due to the higher explosive content, but not worth the tradeoff.
Again, haven’t played it, but my experience with the T-55A convinced me that APHE is often more useful than bad APFSDS at the tier, especially in downtiers. Could be completely wrong, and it’s clearly an overlooked tank, so maybe it should move up.
Every 8.0 gets dunked on in uptiers, the others moreso as while mobility is always useful, the armor/stabilizer advantage on things like the Cent, M60 and T-54s becomes meaningless in even mild uptiers. The Leo is still one of the fastest MBTs around, even in a full uptier, and can still snipe somewhat effectively. The Vickers does do better in uptiers thanks to it’s strengths in flanking not being eroded nearly as much as the Leo’s against LRFs, but I’d say that’s somewhat counteracted by the Leo’s strengths when sniping in a downtier.
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the armor/stabilizer advantage on things like the Cent, M60 and T-54s becomes meaningless in even mild uptiers.
I don’t agree, the armor still protects against autocannons which become increasingly more common in an uptier, and how does a stabilizer ever become meaningless?
The Leo is still one of the fastest MBTs around, even in a full uptier, and can still snipe somewhat effectively
I don’t agree with this either, at this point you’re running into like a BMP-2/3, BMD-4, Rooikats as early as 8.3, Type 87, Type 16, PTL 02, WMA etc, and sniping is still as viable in a Vickers.
Playing above 8.0 you just need a stabilizer to compete, otherwise you’re just gimped and are forced to sit somewhere waiting for things to come to you as you will lose every single engagement against stabilized vehicles.
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The Leo is frontally resistant against autocannons, at least at mid range. The UFP will bounce anything, including 35mm APDS, the LFP is resistant against 30mm APDS, while the turret has enough overlapping plates and odd angles that it will eat rounds. There are two smallish weakspots on the turret that will allow 30mm APDS through, but these are small and hard to hit at mid range, especially if you keep it moving. The Leo is about as resistant to autocannons as any tanks but the T-54s, Cent and M60, but the massive mobility gap more than makes up for that.
Stabilizers become meaningless when everything you fight is similarly stabilized, but also far exceeding you in other aspects. For the Centurions, it’s the terrible mobility that’s really crippling. You will be outflanked and outpositioned by just about everything, and if you’re in a mild uptier, odds are you won’t have the reaction speed advantage against them either. That advantage is the only reason it’s workable at 8.0 in the first place, when that stops being an advantage it really doesn’t have much to fall back on.
The Leo is in the same ballpark speedwise as most of these, certainly close enough to ensure they won’t be able to effortlessly outposition you like they can against the slow MBTs at 8.0. You also have the advantage of both good mobility and tracks, meaning better ability to manuever, better reactive mobility, and less trouble offroad. It’s an underappreciated advantage until you’re in something like a Vickers Mk 11, with it’s 20m turning circle and 10 kph reverse speed.
Again, I will happily argue for decompression, as those wheeled TDs in particular have become something of a plague for the 8.0/8.3 bracket. But the Leo’s speed holds up a whole lot better than the APHe resistant armor of an M60 or T-54.
I will partially agree with this, however it’s map dependant. I’ve been playing a lot of French 8.7 recently, the highest non-stabilized lineup in the game. It requires a more passive playstyle, certainly, and you have to either take up a defensive position or flank with extreme care. Many maps don’t allow for this (Again, an issue with the maps, not the vehicles), but smart play can allow unstabilized tanks to work even at higher tiers. On maps where you can hold good, long range sightlines, or where you have more openings to flank unopposed, you can do very well.
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And just been sold to another company, so who knows what is going on there (with its limited data collection and not even updated in last few years with nations etc., plus of course does not record much relevant data).
“ThunderSkill has just recently undergone new ownership with support of the founder. Whilst searching the current player data pool is working, we’re now focusing on implementing a new solution to verify accounts again. Sit tight and visit our Discord in the meantime.”
You will never see a Type 16 if you are playing a Leopard 1 in an 8.0 lineup, Type 16 is 9.3.
As for the Type 87, do you mean the SPAA thats just a Gepard on a Type 74 hull? or do you mean the Type 87 RCV, which has no stab, no reverse speed, is honestly barely any faster than the Leopard, and is absurdly over tiered?
by the way, comparing a vehicle to other vehicles that are higher in BR than it is stupid. compare it to what it sees in its own BR. of course an 8.7 or 9.0 vehicle is going to be better than an 8.0 one.
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