let me remind you that i was comparing it with the 7.7s as he claims that “the leopard has no advantage over other 7.7”. So most of your points are quite off, specially the gun and ammo related claims as only the m47 have the same gun, most tanks with it are 8.0 and over
Do you realize that it literally has one of the best at this br?, it is better than the t54s, centurions, m48/60 and of 40
And the OF-40 is a straight upgrade over it at 8.0. As are the Vickers Mk1 and Centurion Mk10 thanks to their stabilizers, with the Vickers also getting a much faster reload.
The AMX-30 gets a coaxial 20mm and is identical everywhere else except mobility where it is slightly worse.
As I said above, sounds like the problem here is the T-54s.
You clearly haven’t tried using the Leopard 1 at a range closer than 600m.
As far i can remember the Leopard 1 in 7.7 never was a problem.
Yes, he is not a bad vehicle but noting special.
So you are telling me Leopard 1 deserve 8.0 just becuase Gaijin in his last stupid BR changes move all “similar” vehicle to 8.0 and thats all?
But Italian M47 armed with L7 stay in 7.7 and nobody complains.
I disagre with this but is your opinion and i respect that.
the of 40 is an upgrade over most 8.0s…
the centurion is still worse even with the stabilizer due to the abismal mobility.
except it has a worse ammo, and it doesnt have apds
To me it sounds like the of 40 and the vicker 1 are better than most 8.0, but even then 2 vehicles being better doesnt mean that the leopard should go down in br.
I have used that optic plenty of times, and worse than that like fixed 8x or fixed x10 and you can easily use them under 600m even 100m, youre over exaggerating, and i would pick at any time a x8-16 like the lopards than the x4 of the t54 49, the fixed x8 of the m60s or the x7-8 of the amx 30
Wrong, it is better in the majority of maps that feature close to mid range fighting.
Identical. And after the APDS nerf, the HEAT is better anyway.
I’d rather be in the italian M47. At least that one won’t get instakilled by an SPAA.
Delusional
AMX’s HEAT has lower velocity and can ricochet more often.
I don’t think nerfs really affected L7 APDS that much.
The centurion is worse in most maps maps even the one in cities.
the amx 30’s heat does less damage, has a worse overpressure, is slower and even after the change the apds does have it uses.
Spaag can easily kill it on the sides anyways while have worse mobility and optics
sure buddy… you are acting like having 8x is like having a telescope it is not that hard buddy
Maybe im wrong but some time ago someone posted both ammo stats via datamining and IIRC both haved exactly the same damage and overp. power.
they could have the same modifiers, but the dm 12 keeps having a larger he amount which would change the absolute values, we can see that quite on the overpressure in game.
Agreed on this, L7 APDS is still quite powerful. I consider it to even be pseudo-apfsds, its postpen is good enough.
It didn’t, DM13/M392A2/L28A1(same shell different name) actually got more pen at all angles from that update, While nearly all APDS got nerfs to angled performance., So it was buffed rather than nerfed.
its a fact that america and russia dominate at these brs germany is pretty mediocre not great not terrible
The meaningful armour, in this case, is less an amount of armour capable of stopping main calibre HEATFS and APDS, and more the baseline level of armour required to stop autocannons frontally, which the Leopard 1 lacks. I can say with absolute certainty that even the ADPS on the XM800T, which I believe has only 66mm of penetration, can completely kill a Leopard from the front within at least 200 meters. That’s pretty much scraping the barrel in autocannon penetration around the Leopard 1’s BR; most autocannons have more than enough to do so at even longer ranges.
M47s don’t have a ton of armour, but they have decent armour, and I can definitely say that I bounce around 1/4, maybe 1/3 shots at 8.0 (I uptier it alongside the Leo) because people aren’t bothering to aim right, and that definitely makes a difference you can feel. Much more than that, though, is the fact that if I face an SPAA I know that it needs to aim for specific spots to kill me, like the side, barrel, tracks, or maybe the cupola. With the Leopard 1, anything can kill you from the front as long as it has more than a .50 cal.
As for the mobility, it is a bit better than most of the contemporary vehicles at that BR, but not by a large enough margin to matter in most cases. Its armour is significantly more useless than the rest of the vehicles at that BR, as you say yourself everything lolpens so the gun doesn’t matter all that much (and isn’t that much better performing than the rest besides), the mobility is good but unremarkable, and in general it is entirely unsuited to the CQC maps common in War Thunder.
Yeah I always regarded L7 APDS to be pretty good, surely better than similar HEAT.
Some lower caliber APDS like 76mm ones are glorified APCRs and APDS from UK heavies are also troublesome.
No one is taking an M47 over a Leopard 1.
Thats a huge reach
At least in a T54 or M60, a fucking falcon or XM800T won’t completely destroy your team
i mean if your team gets destroyed by a XM800T thats on you and even then it still doesnt make either the m60 ot the t54 better than the leopard. They are worse tanks overall.
Of course italian M47 armed with the same gun and 7.7.
So one fast rat tank flanking our entire team and then killing all of us before we even have time to stop and stabilize is our problem? Ever wonder why the Wiesel 1A4 (similar rat tank with the same gun) and the Gepard (same gun as many other TD SPAAs) have lower KDRs than similar vehicles in different countries?
You can easily kill it, use your heat.
First, even using the from the thunder skills the kd of the xm800t and the wisel are not that far off just by 0.5, and since the xm800t is a higher br it also sees far more thanks with less armor and people usually use it as a first spawn so the difference is not that high.
Second, the gepard have around the same kd as other spaag with the same guns even better than some , only the itpsv and the za35 do better, and thats because how much mobile they are, which also shows you how important mobility is.
