Could just be my AB experience, armor plays a bigger role there. In RB I dunno, ill yield to anyone that plays em there.
dies in 20pdr I fucking hate that gun kill it now why is it so shit
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Perhaps the T-54s are too high as well.
84mm will OHK less frequently so you’ll have to aim for the gunner, which is where stabilization help.
Most of the time it just nonpens or turns em yellow for me, and the full AP isnt much better. Cant nail em through the front plate either, which is unfortunate.
The 105 on the other hand… that one is wonderful.
In my opinion, T-54s are worse than Leopard I, but decreasing the BR of many 8.0s might create chaos under them. I think some decompression is needed here, unstabilized tanks fighting against fully stabilized ones with LRF/darts on a regular basis doesn’t really seem good to me.
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Sweet, so we’re back to compression being the major cause.
All roads lead to an insufficient BR cap, I guess.
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Yeah that’s pretty much my opinion. BR decompression could solve most issues regarding vehicles being OP/bad.
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Yep. Still amazed Gaijin still haven’t gone all the way up to BR 13.3 like air does. They could easily use that additional space to decompress mid-ranks.
The worse part is if you’re a ground only player even if you get to the top of the tree you’re still getting uptiered thanks to ground & air players bringing these higher tier aircraft into GRB.
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Cant have a Leopard facing 6.7s, madness
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Just one question. Why not??? i mean where is the main problem with a possbile return of the leo 1 to 7.7???
Because it dominated at that BR, The Leopard 1 has good mobility, great optics and good reliable fire power.
T-54 is 8.0
M60 8.0
Cent Mk10 - 8.0
AMX-30 - 8.0
Excluding the Cent which is stabilised but slow as hell. The Leopard is better than the rest.
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Better in what sense?
All of them are generally more mobile than lower BR tanks while having significantly better armor protection.
The Leopard is like a M18. A tank destroyer with high mobility, to ambush other tanks.
However it is far too vulnerable to be played aggressively, since literally any vehicle can take it out when it gets jumped.
10x Zoom doesn’t mean anything when 90% of maps make you fight below 500m.
A Tiger II or Ferdiand is great at long range becaue the have good RoF and high velocity APHE firing guns. But they can also rely on armor at closer range, even when they become more vulnerable.
The Leopard doesn’t have any more firepower than the other 8.0s and the better mobility comes at the cost of any meaningful armor.
In uptiers it struggles the same as any other 8.0 and in downtiers the only advantage is mobility, which isn’t even that significant.
I’m not for lowering the Leopard but it needs RoF buff to be viable in its role.
Most L7 tanks should have a 5s reload, like the Vickers MBT, but the Leopard is the prime candidate for that.
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L7 is the best gun at that BR.
T-54 doesnt use it, AMX 30 doesnt use it, AMX-30 is forced to use HEAT
T-54 rounds are not as effective
Cent Mk10 is good but its optics and mobility is terrible, the stabiliser and fire power is great.
Yes the Leopard is more of a TD than a tank but that was it’s design, lowering its BR will only lead to it dominating as it previously has.
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neither of those have a meaningful armor, all can be easily pen by heat or apds and at 8.0 those are the rounds that youre going to face most of the time, they cant rely on the armor like the tiger 2 or the ferdiland do, so you trade mobility by meaningless armor, btw you do have better firepower than other 8.0… the amx 30s and the t54 are a thing, it may not have the firepower of the vickers or the of 40, but it is still better than many 8.0s.
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Most of the vehicles he mentioned are close to Leopard, but T-54 is definitely worse off.
Worse mobility (especially reverse), gun handling, gun depression, reload speed and only thing it has going for it is it’s armor. Unfortunately, that armor will only work against APHE (which is being replaced by HEAT/APDS on 7.0+) and autocannons.
Buffing Leopard’s reload speed will make things only worse.
What is that supposed to mean? Can easily be penetrated by HEAT or APDS?
Which SPAA uses HEAT or APDS? Which tank uses HEAT or APDS when they don’t have another choice?
So you’re saying that a T-54 or M60 have no meaningful armor, despite having 2-3 times more armor than the Leopard?
Guess a T-34 or Sherman also have no meaningful armor compared to a Puma or Chaffee, because you can penetreate their armor.
The point of the statement was that lowering any 8.0 to 7.7, the Leopard wouldn’t somehow break the game fighting anything from 6.7-7.7. Compared to a M60 or T-54 that have much better armor protection.
The Leopard has no advantage over other 7.7 that would make it any better then them in a downtier.
At 8.3 we already go into the territory of laser rangefinder and nearly any vehicle has a stabilizer.
the gepards and similar, sidam… they have apds
almost all 8.0 have apds or heat, the only ones that do not have are the french autoloaders, and a lot of tanks over 7.0 also have them.
first they dont have 2 or 3 times more armor, second against heat or apds they can be penned just as easily as the leopards, this is why it is meningless-
well because their armor are able to stop common round at those br, even with the puma or chaffee you need to aim carefuly against those tanks. thats not the case with the 8.0 tanks.
the point is that there is no reason for the leopard to be a lower br than most 8.0 when it is not worse and in many instances it is actually better.
The optics, mobility, the gun, its ammo, the range finder, gun handling…
there are still plenty of vehicles without laser range finder or stabilizer over 8.3, and you still have the issue that most 8.0 do not have those either, let alone both, not to mention that in the case of the stibilizer they have an horrendous mobility.
Overkill and unusable in at least half the maps.
Good, but by no means unmatched.
Shared with other vehicles, namely the OF-40 at the same BR equipped with a laser rangefinder.
Also shared with other vehicles at the same BR.
See above
Garbage.
I have used several of the tanks that are being mentioned, and within their differences they all seemed to me essentially competent in their Br, everything would be based on knowing how to take advantage of their advantages, the stabilized of the Centurion, the speed and sights of the Leopard, the T-54 and its speed and decent armor, etc. It is clear that tanks like the Leopard and AMX30, which base their design on long-range defensive combat, are undermined by gaijin’s incompetence when it comes to making maps that are minimally correct for a tank game (and of the players for their conformism). But regarding the issue of speed, it must also be taken into account that in many maps, the one who arrives first to a certain point of the map has an advantage, so a Leopard or AMX30 will be able to squeeze the advantage of speed to at least get a good shooting position shortly after starting the game, something that a Centurion MK10 will not achieve.
let me remind you that i was comparing it with the 7.7s as he claims that “the leopard has no advantage over other 7.7”. So most of your points are quite off, specially the gun and ammo related claims as only the m47 have the same gun, most tanks with it are 8.0 and over
Do you realize that it literally has one of the best at this br?, it is better than the t54s, centurions, m48/60 and of 40