You have to use the strengths,
Its FAST, get to positions quickly, the mantlet and turret are surprisingly trolly, with leopards bouncing 120mm APDS.
You arent stabilised but with a good crew you can shoot on the move.
You play it like a light/rat tank
the actual problem with the leo is this shit BR compression , but there are worse cases like the t95e1 at 8.3 for no reason , he has no stablizer and a worse cannon so its pretty bad too .
I can see the leo at 7.7 but when it gets an full downtier it would be too strong , since its a very powerfull gun against the heavy tanks witch the armor would get melted by his gun .
The armor sucks too so you can even be pen in the front by some ifvs like the bmp 2 etc , but the tank seems alright even tho im not a huge fan of this very passive playstyle .
In my opinion 8.0 germany is pretty weak compared to other nations but the low win rate probaly comes more from the brainrot players then the actual lineup…
people here arent that smart you should say “weak by spec”
technically it is weak because it’s competitor has something better
Play French 7.7 and 8.3 and you will reconsider your opinion about Germany …
waht? french solid shot at that BR is crazy OP and the auto loader is faster than most tank
Leopard 1 is only weak because of compression. It is a fine tank on its own and would deserve 8.0 if most of its competition weren’t stabilized dart slingers with composite armor / good mobility. It shouldn’t go down to 7.7, though.
Blame premium players the Leopard is entering the 8.3-8.7 premium power creep.
Leopard should be on 7.7 or 7.3 not at 8.0 while the OF-40, Type 69, IKV 91, ZTZ59D1 and STB (granted STB and ZTZ59D1 are 8.3 but still) which are better tanks in everyway (except slight mobility advantages towards the Chinese ones) are 8.0 - 8.3 aswell. That LRF alone on these tanks should make them differ atleast by +0.3 - 0.4 BR
(Yes i know the 8.0 Vickers suffers even more then the Leopard but its a Leopard thread and the French AMX-30 has its 20mm pewpew and its ammo is protected by its fueltank which according to War Thunder logic counts as spaced armour)
The Ikv 91 is worse than the Leo 1. The first amx 30 is also equivalent or worse than it.
The Leo 1 is fine at 8.0.
No lmao, stop asking for your MBT to be undertiered.
This is just a “too bad” situation due to be compression.
The leopard 1 is just too high in br that it will faces 9.0 tanks like early stage current day mbts and just too low that any lower and it will fight late ww2 tanks which it just shouldn’t be fighting. It’s just that at this stage Germany trades armor for mobility and weaponry which can get taking used to if you’ve been playing German ww2 heavies and TDs. (Pretty much what it seems like everyone been talking about in this thread). br compression just ruins some tanks nothing u can do about it.
Bruh the OF-40 is undertiered in comparison to the Leo 1 like literally OF-40 same tier better “armour” has a Laser Range Finder but i guess the 3° faster turret traverse makes the Leo 1 superior in your opinion
No the IKV 91 has almost the same power to weight ratio as the Leo 1 better reload speed and a god damn Laser Range Finder only downside to the IKV 91 is that it CAN be penned by 50. cal on some parts of the front and it doesnt have APDS
I am aware the OF-40 is better. That said, both fit into their current BR (8.0) better than either does at 7.7 or 8.3. We need decompression.
But it has a very slow round, and it’s armour is very weak. Being penned by a .50 is a huge deal when many tanks it faces has them.
I think we should compare some numbers here. Lets ask Thunderskill.com
Leopard 1: https://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/germ_leopard_I
Winrate: 40%
T-55A: https://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/ussr_t_55a
Winrate: 56%
M60A1: https://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/us_m60a1
Winrate: 51%
T54E1: https://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/us_t54e1
Winrate: 58%
IS-4M: https://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/ussr_is_4m
Winrate: 55%
So we have a hugh gap here. And the average german player experienced a disadvantage compard to the other nation. Does anyone now still wanna argue with “skill issue” and blame the majority of players for being “too bad”?
Yes, me. Because from my experience with German teams BR 5.3+, they really are that bad. There is a reason why there are severe stereotypes surrounding them. And to be fair, this pattern appears at all nations where there are iconic and “legendary” vehicles (American aircraft for example). People who are inexperienced tend to flock to these vehicles. German WW2 vehicles and beyond tend to entice most with a vague interest in military history. It’s really not that complicated to explain why this happens.
What’s about the very similar AMX 30 (1972) and Type 74 (C) ?
Why did you compare Leopard 1 (BR 8) with tanks at BR 8.3 & 8.7?
I guess Leopard I is not the kind of tank german techtree players used to play, so they can’t manage weak armor.
I only always hear “germans are bad” but nobody explains why. What are they actually doing wrong? I assume they are just bad because the tanks at rank V are bad balanced. So without proper equipment it’s very difficult to perform well. And even if it is the players that have problems with handeling their tanks right. Why not accept the fact and adjust the BR so that the average player can handle it. I think its better to adjust the BR by how players are actually performing with it and not by what could be.
They are mainly inexperienced players to begin with. Here is what is most common:
-Terrible situational awareness
-Most abhorrent users of smoke grenades, often hindering their own team.
-Over-reliance on armor thickness, leading getting killed in open fields or other vulnerable areas.
-Lack of understanding of own and opposing weaknesses, especially obvious since German guns of that BR are some of the best to use.
This argument does not apply since German tanks have very good armor and guns, with slightly above average mobility. Experienced players should not have issues using them.
Ignoring the fact that lowering the BR also will see experienced players using it. Were you around when the Leo was at 7.3? It was terrible, that tank dominated lobbies easily. Lowering a BR because the average player is bad is unwise.
This used to be the case with two completely similar tanks. The M48A1 (US) and M48A2C (German) were effectively the same tank bar some cosmetic differences and a raised engine deck. However, due to poor statistical performance, the German version was one BR step lower than the US one. This was a poor balancing decision as tanks don’t have any difference that matters enough to alter their peformance. It was just because the players were bad with them. The same case, again, can be said about lower BR American aircraft. Most are lower than they should be.