Last stand of Air Realistic Battles

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
585

I really hope that Gaijin adds RB EC so that everyone can see how acutely awful the game mode is and it’s many flaws. Port the game mode and rewards structure directly over from sim and laugh as the game implodes.

Most of the people that advocate for EC have not played it and don’t realize what happens to the game mode when taken to its logical conclusion.

You know what rotating BRs with fixed brackets cause? Flavor of the day planes that people only play when in down tiers. Oh it’s a 9.0 day? Time to break out the Ariete and slam everything in the game. 8.3 day? I hope you like chasing Sea Vixen around and playing with yourself.

Attackers get to be useful? Have fun getting slammed by fighters as soon as you take off. Think the game is going to be dynamic and your team will rally to push back? Nope. They are going to leave the game to find an easy non-competitive lobby to click on PvE objectives without opposition.

There are whole regions of sim that are basically purely brainless PvE grinding. And because of self-selection of grinding means that the overall rewards have been driven lower and lower.

Oh you think EC will force dynamic BVR gameplay for top tier jets? I hope you love Denmark, multipathing, and having one side basically automatically lose due to spawn locations.

2 Likes
587

can’t fathom how some people think this specific sentence is some kind of mythos. I GRIND THE ENTIRE WEAPONRY. I WANT TO USE ALL OF THEM.

588

YES there are so many garbage vehicles in that rating thanks to T2 and crew

589

I think it’s wild that ground top br is still 12

590

I’m so glad I wasn’t around when that stupid thing got added.

I’m sure Juno, Eurus and co abused the hell out of it as much as they could though.

591

I still miss any valid point which would make a multi-spawn layout of Air RB a smart idea. Air RB is a PvPvE mode with focus on PvP and basically a contest of aircraft choices and understanding of game mechanics.

Referring to poll numbers is irrelevant as the ability to click on a “Yes” or “No” does not imply that these players would have an understanding of how this game mode works. If they are mindless grinders it seems logical that they want multiple spawns to rush to bases - it doesn’t matter if they use a Mach 2 F-4S or a Ju 288.

Imho you mix up symptoms with the root cause.

  1. The popularity of CAS aircraft in wt is based on the different ways gaijin implemented aircraft and tanks which makes them in Ground RB way superior (except a few BR ranges) to players in ground vehicles.

  2. Without the possibility to get cheap tank player kills in Ground RB there is besides some famous exceptions (Ju-87, Il-2, Tornado, Su-7, A-10 & Su-25) no real cult about those aircraft; plane enthusiasm is mainly connected to fighters and bombers.

  3. The current layout or Air RB with ground units in a straight line allows a toddler to participate - but there is little to zero point in using them in Air RB. Why? Because you play a vehicle based shooter. And those CAS aircraft needed irl fighter cover to do their job.

That’s why gaijin stated that player kills would be the ultimate goal (={s}kill bonus) of playing wt. Therefore really passionate pilots in strike fighters are rather rare - just based on the fact that they sacrifice a lot of their survival chances in order to have a bigger payload vs ground units.

This is actually the major misconception - as long as Air RB is a plain shooter all newer maps are engagement optimized. That means that the design facilitates player interactions as fast as possible.

The idea of dynamic targets is not new, we had this in the past. But the current player material is simply not smart enough to use tactics or strategy - and has zero patience.

Example from a rare match on Norway:

Summary

Last topic:

Nobody denies that Air RB became a missile slinging / trade in head-ons slaughtering surrounded by grinders performing useless base bombing tasks.

  1. But almost everybody denies that fun is highly subjective and that gaijin created this game not based on their passion for aerial warfare - they want to earn money.

  2. So you wont change anything as long as lobbies are filled with masses of players on selfish grinding tours in order to research aircraft their can’t handle and a way too large part of the players sees the purpose of this game in unlocking stuff in TTs instead of playing the game right now.

  3. Everything in this mode is following a clear strategy to reduce entry barriers for rookies (which are clearly their target customers) - and this whole thread is increasing the complexity for these players.

I mean you need no degree in Quantum Physics to understand why non-fighters got nerfed - the average fighter pilot progressed way too fast at lower ranks and is unable or unwilling to improve. So they crawled towards the tail with way too low excess speeds and got farmed by manual gunners.

Years ago you saw hordes of A6M5s swarming Be-6s - and they died like flies. You see similar things now with the Chinese version of the plane…

592

there is possibilities to have both, with some add-on sub-objectives:

for bare exemples,…

593

And @pvwatermelon

No,… you both are confusing 2 things here.

T-2(k) when introduced to the game had something called “Radar Gun Leading”, which was basically the reason why it was “OP” compared to F-100D and MiG-19PT

F-100D had 4x AIM-9E, so if the reason was AIM-9E F-100D should have been on top of those aircrafts.

T-2(k) was at the same time:

  • fastest aircraft (by 0.4 mach in altitude)
  • best AoA performer (but sacrificing energy retention, so MiG-19 and F-100 could pull up and get away)
  • having best avionics (Radar Gun Leading feature: which allowed T-2(k) gun kill solution from farther than 0.8km)
  • having best gun (1st aircraft to hold a M61A Vulcan in the game)

Those are the reason why T-2(k) was pushed up by 1 BR Step (from 10.0 to 10.3 at the time)

Now it’s still 9.7, because it have no flares/chaffs, is a non Mach2 able aircraft, and don’t retain energy as good as the F-8E(FN) for exemple (which have Magic-1 but no Flares/chaffs, and non Mach2 aircraft)

Rafale / EF-2000’s / Su-30SM recently got a jump in BR from 14.0 to 14.3, for similar reasons of out-performing most of their opponents from lower BR, thanks to “Technologia!”

594

My point was that a lot of 9.0 stuff is eaten alive by anything 9.7+. The difference between 8.0 fighting 8.7 and 9.0 fighting 9.7 is night and day

595

Agreed, but the T-2(k) focus is not really relevant,…
When you see gaijin pushing down aircraft like:
MiG-21F-13/PFM & J-7II from 9.7 to 9.3 (same BR as MiG-19’s)
MiG-21 MF/SMT from 10.7 to 10.3 (meanwhile the Mirage IIIE is still 10.7, despite being the direct counterpart)
F3H-2 Demon being 9.0 (with 7C’s and 9B’s) (was 9.7 once)
F-18A’s being 12.3 with more recent missile than the F-4EJ Kai (also 12.3, a F-4C with F-16A radar, AIM-9L/AIM-7F, no HMS unlike US F-4J, and no “Agile Eagle” modification like US F-4E)

so, the focus made on T-2(k) (being 9.7) seems obviously out of proportions, looking at all those other comparisons
(also i had no problem to do nearly 4KD in F-86F40 JASDF when it was 9.3 : 1044kills for 270 deaths in 510 battles)

596

Ok I’ll clarify, mig19, 10.3 mig 21, j35xs, 9.7 harrier, t2, ayit, and all the 10.0s are all cancer to get uptiered against and can need to move up.T2 is most annoying because it’s fast, you can at least outrun harrier/ayit if you see them early enough.
Rest of the other planes aren’t too problematic

597

ok, let me clarify then:

MiG-19PT/S/J-6 are placed 9.3 same as their F-100 Counterpart
both are unable to go up, because of what they can face in uptier already (Mirage IIIIC/5F for exemples)
if pushed 9.7, they would fight all-aspect carriers (Alphajet TH with 4xAIM-9P-4) but all lacks flares

you mean those ones?

Look at it: 10.3 BR
6x AIM-9J (rear-aspect)
only 12 flares/chaffs

in full uptier, J-35XS are facing 11.3 : F-4E / MiG-23M / MiG-21Bis / F-5T SCU / J-8B / Tornado IDS (having 2 AIM-9L) / JA-37C Viggen / Kurnass

Non Mach 1, only 2x AIM-9G which are rear-aspect (don’t show your 6 = no AAM)
doesn’t turnfight as good as many 8.7/9.0
only have good engine power.

really not hard to kill them using any F-86 for exemple

we went through it already - the AIM-9P that it got are not 9P-4’s (not all-aspect) and got only 2 of them
can’t compete with 11.0+ aircrafts

Maybe the most controversial one in the list:
similar flight model as A-4B’s (8.7) and E’s (8.7), but does have a bit more engine power and 2x AIM-9D+2x Shafrir-2 /// OR /// 4xShafrir-2 (both rear-aspect missile)
non Mach1 able aircraft.
no energy retention (like previous A-4’s), not outturning F-86’s and alike.
could be 10.0, but that’s pretty much it,…

and all 10.0 are saying the same things from 11.0’s, which are saying the same thing about 12.0, which are themselves saying it from 13.0, which are crying about 14.0’s,…

oh, and btw,… 8.0 are crying over 9.0’s too.

the game is designed like this, not a reason to treat anyone of “cancer”
Yet, Decompression is needed, and we all agree on that.

598

Are you and @Cpt_Bel_V aware of that your exchange has absolutely nothing to to do with the OP and the actual topic?

You 2 are just spamming off-topic posts and water down the quality of his thread…

2 Likes
600

you sure about that?

we’re talking of current compression,… and so it’s relevant to thread.

talking of current one, may help to understand what’s required,…

601

I was implying all the stuff I listed would up but so would everything else 10.7+. Like there are the stuff that’s actually fair currently at it’s rating and can stay post decompress and then the stuff that clearly can’t. Ex: F86k is pretty fair at 9.0 in regards to opponents in downtier , but f4d clearly isn’t.

Fighting 9.0 in 8.0 isn’t nearly as bad as 9.0 going vs anything higher. The Korean War stuff generally just gets somewhat decent engine upgrades as you go up in rating, maybe 2 aim9b. It’s quite balanced. But the post Korean stuff you jump from aim9b to mostly unavoidable aim9p in one battle rating step; it’s just ridiculous.

Also in the end it’s a team game. No matter how hard the poor turn attackers get railed when you get behind them their ability to long range guaranteed kill you if they sneak up on you is so potent

602

and i agreed that decompression was needed, even made a whole post when there was nearly 700 votes:

still actual now that there is more than 3200 votes.

so we’re agreeing on most part,… the only problem i was focusing on, is the fact that only 1 plane was shown as problematic, when in reality, it’s the whole Jet Era that needs a severe decompression.

2 Likes
604

that’s completely out of topic,…

talking ARB gamemode and decompression,… not Gaijin Team members

605

Speaking of the last stand of ARB, how about we talk about one of its essential components, when will they fix the guns?

I’m tired of pumping a hundred canon rounds into someone and getting hits, stealth belts are essentially worthless right now and make things like the meteor a major headache to play.

606

F-84G tanked like 7-8 separate hits from my quad M50 cannons on the Ouragan yesterday for not a single crit or damage notification.

607

I actually like the airspawns at toptier, way less “accidental” teamkills and random failsquadded props killing people on your team