Laser bombs haven't been working properly for a month now

It seems to me that, in that case, the in-game data about the range of this type of ammunition is heavily exaggerated, if we assume that this is only Gaijin’s projectile flight simulation.

  1. The game displays kinematic range, not tactical engagement range
    In War Thunder, the displayed “range” value represents how far the weapon can theoretically fly under ideal ballistic and aerodynamic conditions. It does not represent the real effective guidance or employment range of the weapon.

In reality, for systems like Paveway II and AGM-123, effective engagement range was primarily limited by laser geometry, seeker field of view, and designator performance — not just by flight kinematics.

  1. Gaijin separates flight physics from seeker logic
    WT simulates missile/bomb flight and laser seeker behavior as two separate systems:

one models boost/glide and aerodynamics,

the other applies an artificial laser acquisition scaling model.

As a result, a weapon may be able to physically reach long distances, while being unable to acquire or maintain laser tracking — even though the stat card still shows a large “range” value.

This creates a mismatch between hangar statistics and actual in-game combat performance.

  1. Real military documentation does not define a single fixed “range number”
    For Paveway II-class weapons, there is no single official “seeker lock range” value. Instead, real documentation describes employment envelopes that depend on:

release altitude, attack geometry, designator type and power, atmospheric conditions.

WT reduces all of this into a single static number, which is inherently an oversimplification.

If we accept the current WT model as a simplified simulation, then the “range” values shown for laser-guided weapons are primarily kinematic marketing numbers, not realistic combat-effective engagement ranges.

This is not necessarily a bug, but it is a UI/stat presentation problem, because it implies a level of real-world accuracy that the underlying guidance model does not actually support.

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Reply from @CalvinAz :

The point is that the POINT cue does not appear for the selected missile or bomb at distances greater than 5 km from the target. As a result, the dropped bomb or Skipper does not even start guiding toward the target.

That’s why I tried doing it in a dive. But I also wasn’t sure whether the Skipper should also be able to “acquire” the “POINT” cue.


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The same happens with the Skipper.

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Reply from @CalvinAz again:

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Ok, I think I got it. At least in air RB. I switched to air SB some time ago.

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So, i found this on reddit, just the datamines:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1gkzevn/240047_240051_part_2_20241105/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

  • laser seeker:
    • range: 4572 → 4876.8 m
    • FoV: 20° → 32°
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You can see all the laser seeker ranges in the guided weapon spreadsheet

But do note again that technically all those range values, vary with designation range and are also not actually capped at that value either.

EDIT: idk why, but when I follow this link up here, the spreadsheet has less tabs than the full document… not sure what’s going on okay fixed or something, the automatic embedding of the spreadsheet broke it or something

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I found a document that could be a very interesting source of techniques and procedures used when employing laser-guided weapons.

Here, it’s interesting:

paveway_II

paveway_III

Problem is that the there is no Trajectory Shaping (adaptive midcourse guidance) nor release dependent scan pattern selected on the Paveway III & IV, etc. like there should be.

Paveway III Loft

I miss the IOG that the PW3 used to have, even though it shouldn’t have it, it at least allowed it to behave more realistically than now. Bug report on this missing feature is over a year old now, and I feel it won’t be fixed anytime soon anyway regardless. Though we are seeing more sophisticated autopilots now with AShMs, the scanning seeker would be a completely new feature afaik.

Besides that, seeker performance of the PW3, although better than PW2 already in-game, is probably still underperforming. I only could find that the seeker should have 2.5-3x the acquisition range over PW2/Skipper. There was also a table with redacted pieces of information about acquisition range at some designation range. Anyway given how laser acquisition range works in game, this means that PW3 seeker range currently of ~6.1km is underperforming, and needs to be ~7.7km to ~8.4km (I should probably update my report on that, but not like it hasn’t been forgotten already…) That would extend the designation range, to achieve ~3km of acquisition range, from 12.5km to about 23.7km, and would at least allow some significant long range use of it. Though anything now is much better than the dreaded time most LGBUs were nerfed to a mere ~3.6km/12k ft seeker range, I remember seeing many reports on people saying laser seekers just stopped working because of it.

Not really the Conical scan could easily be approximated by simply (re)using the existing Field of View narrowing IRCCM mechanic, to cut the Field of Regard down by about a half after it locks on.

The bar scan would need more work to be done but radars already use a bar scanning, (Vertical ACM mode, so it should be possible in engine. Not that it would be easy to do but is definitely possible.

Only thing I’ve seen is that baseline PI kits are 10kft[~3km], where PII are 16kft [~4.8km]

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/VhIrxRZCcS46

Do you actually happen to know what they mean exactly with nominal range. I guess how Gaijin interprets it, and how I’ve been calling it, is the range at which designation range = seeker acquisition range (using some standardized designator power under standardized conditions, we also have in game).

For PW3, the seeker info I got come from DoD approppriations for FY 1984 and 1985. Technically they were talking about a rocket-boosted PW3 in comparison to the Skipper, which is just a rocket boosted PW2.

image

image

Not specifically, but reflected laser energy can vary dramatically (with the way the carrier wave is encoded it’s more so the range at which the pulse modulation can reliably be decoded) depending on a number of conditions(e.g. approach angle, angle off the designator, type of delivery, type of designator, target constitution, shape of target, constitution of scene, etc.).

In effect there is no real hard range limit beyond that of the designator. But in this case it would be for some standard delivery against a standard target set.

I have the impression that I’m still having an issue with the Skipper. Yesterday in Sim I only managed to hit the target when I launched it from about 4.8 km. From longer distances it just goes straight down. I need to test it again after work.

Skipper has been working fine in RB.

From what ranges are you using them in those cases? If you want to use them from beyond 4.8km (or near that), you have to account for the drop by launching upwards (by quite a lot). If you are just launching them when facing the target directly at long ranges, the skipper will drop to the ground as you describe.

For longer ranges I suggest you actually stick to the Paveway IIs, because you can use CCRP in that case. The A-6E has a CCIP rocket sight, but it’s pretty useless for the skipper at longer ranges, as it will fall outside of the display region. I don’t think there’s a rocket CCRP sight anywhere in this game even.

In case you want to know how to use the CCRP sight:

Spoiler

Toggle the sight to the bomb mode and you should see the following:
image

Stabilize your sight on the target, and the lines in red should appear (if target is within front view). Then simply align the middle of your reticle with the vertical line, and wait until the middle of your reticle aligns with the small horizontal line (relevant lines are in red) and release the bomb. You can also move your aircraft so that the reticle moves up to this horizontal line (will be usually necessary if you drop from longer ranges).

Depending on your game settings, the game may even prevent you from dropping the bomb while CCRP is activated until the CCRP drop conditions have been met. Also, the skipper may not be terribly longer range than a regular Paveway II, so you may be able to use the bomb CCRP, use it like normal, but instead of dropping the bomb, switch over to the skipper and launch that instead, it should at least get the skipper near the target, probably good enough to guide in.

I know hot to use CCRP ;)
Today I played one match using GBU-10 bombs and managed to score a hit even on a convoy — a moving target.

In the second match I took 2× Skipper + a GBU-10. The first Skipper I launched flew off in an unknown direction, most likely straight down.

Only the second one, released at an angle of about 20–30 degrees, worked properly — I waited until the distance dropped below 5 km and only then did it hit the target.

I have the impression that sometimes — or maybe only on the first use in a given battle — Skippers fly straight down instead of heading toward the target, while every subsequent use is almost a guaranteed hit.

Overall, I try not to exceed 5-6 km from the target and about 4-5 km altitude (or just below clods) so that the Skipper has enough time to align itself with the laser.

If you have replays saved, maybe you can see in sensor view what happened to it exactly.

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