It cannot deal with radar SPAA.
The Zuni’s range for a direct hit (splash damage of those 8kg only works against open-top; others, such as the guepard, needs to be a direct it for the one shot.) is around 2-2.5km, when the engaging range on such slow target for those is around 3-3.5km.
And in my experience, as soon as there is 2 radar SPAA, or the radar SPAA have the somewhat brain to use the stab they have and start moving as soon as he sees zuni’s getting fired, you will die without a single kill.
With the 4 pods of zuni, you will almost never go over 550km (I don’t count the high altitude spawn, yes), and there is no countermeasure or RwR.
And I really don’t want this thing to face in full uptier B-52, F-117, G-91R with the AS-20, MiG-17, or an 1-4 with AGM-62A Walleyes or GBU-8.
Well it can just use bombs and stay at a couple km as well with the CCIP
If they do that, they give the SPAAs a lot of time to react and get away, and since they’ll almost always pull off to not get into SPAA gun range, it’s quite the tell that even newer players will pick up on. Either way, the SPAA player has multiple times longer to react to the threat.
The SAAB-105 has this problem up, and due to it’s speed it’s able to throw bombs a hell of a lot farther than a L39 can. It’s also why a lot of Alpha Jet players prefer the rocket pods, since you don’t need to lead targets or get as close, and it’s a lot easier to hit people with a pop up attack.
Bomb CCIP is only really strong on a super agile plane that can do pop up attacks to give the enemy no time to react, or against clueless players that sit still for long periods of time.
Not saying they’ll end up staying at 7.3 without Zunis. We’d need to see how they perform with bombs or the small rockets. Just that it’d be a lot easier to have it land at a BR where it’s balanced than if it still has the Zunis.
no but non-radar SPAAs have a hard time dealing with it (well the non-modern 20mm ones at least, I think it’s the only plane I have died to a weasel in). I just think that 7.7 would not make life too much more difficult for the L-39 while sparing the WW2 ranks the worst of it.
Of course decompression is the best solution, but we know how Gaijin feels about that, so at the very least the cost of the zuinis needs to go up.
Then the L-39 will just be useless. And honestly, only open tops SPAA that faces him have to be very worried with the splash damage, others such as the skink, FlakPz 341, uepard, Kugelblitz, ZSU 37-2, ZSU 23-4M2, PGZ-88, ZSU 24-4V, VEAK 40, … All those can just move or just like most of the time hope the Zuni’s dispersion will save them, and it’s very often. I’ve been struggling to kill a single skink.
With the engine of the ZA/ART version, a pop-up attck with bomb is suicide: You bleed th energy too fast and it takes ages to get it back with a bit of weight on the hardpoints. Even taking off is a real challenge when you have minimum fuel and 4 Zuni’s pod. I’ve never tried, but I’m pretty sure that on some airfield, the L-39ZA/ART cannot take off with max fuel and the 4 rockets pods. And I think pop-up with bombs works better against radar AAA: they trust too much the radar most of the time and not their hears. They will try to lock you, have to look at the radar, find your azimuth, … With a slow jet engine, someone with hears will be just waiting for you. Even tho with the slowness of the ZA/ART, the possible reaction time is maybe a couple month.
The main problem, is that people NEVER grind first AAA. Most of them can deal with the AZ/ART variant, but people tends to bring lower BR AAA that are much worst again longer range engagment.
The only SPAA the L-39 can face are :
US: M163
Germany : Kugelblitz, Wiesel, Guepard
USSR: M53/59, ZSU-57-2, ZSU-37-2, ZSU 23-4M2, ZSU 23-4v
UK: Falcon, Chieftain Marksman
China: PGZ88 and WZ305 (proxy 57mm, extremely deadly)
and so on.
In those, only the ones from 6.3-6.7 are maybe not as survivable and good at longer range, but they are extremely deadly at closer range. As soon as a shilka spawn, with or without radar, that means most of the time death if the enemy can actually use it.
But I completely agree on the cost of Zuni’s. They are axed on the toptier, where it is cheap because unusable against a S1, SM-SV, ADATS, … but at lower BR, it’s more like taking advantage of a loophole.
But what is to keep in mind is that japan has an average playerbase that is better than most Major TT, just like every minor TT. So it wouldn’t have the same stat if it was given to Russia, by example. The jet itself isn’t the only reason for such k/d.
unfortunately moving it to 7.7 kind of is pushing it to 8.3, you dont have a viable lineup at 7.7. The RCV(P) is the only one and its not exactly a good 7.7, with the rest of your lineup being 7.3, so your choice is uptier a 7.3 lineup or go to 8.3.
The whole point of the plane and the reason gaijin added it was to fill that very large gap in the lineup since you dont have a proper CAS plane between there and 3.7. Id rather it was nerfed in a way to keep it at 7.3 and viable as a CAS option instead of pushing it up in BR.
Plus I think its flight performance would make it next to useless at 7.7. Its already no better in flight performance than a 6.0 prop.
Hardly. It’ll either have to ambush SPAA with pop up attacks (Which it can do at least once, albeit requiring a long reset), or just avoid them, and focus on tanks. Tanks in power positions often don’t move, or at least not much, making them pretty easy to hit from longer ranges, and most if not all of the SPAA at the tier don’t have the range to protect frontline tanks unless they’re in a good position somewhere near the second line.
Just fly out to the side of the map and go from side to side, as deflection shots are more challenging for SPAA.
This is a bad example, firstly since outside the Coelian and the Kugel, this is the only actually armored SPAA you’ll be seeing, and also because it’s range is so poor that unless you’re specifically attacking it or something close to it, you’ll practically never need to worry about it. Especially since most Skink players love just sitting around in spawn, making it pretty trivial to stay out of their range and still hit targets.
As for the rest of that list… You know the Shilka has 8mm of armor max, right? They may not be technically open topped, but a near miss will still overpressure them pretty easily. That goes for practically every SPAA it can see, apart from the 35mm ones it can start seeing in full uptiers (And the PGZ-88, but there’s no way it’s not moving up soon. No idea why it’s so low).
If this is the case, then great. CAS should be at a disadvantage when engaging SPAA in an even fight, and require clever tactics or a more skilled player to beat them.
It’ll still be very potent against unprotected (or inadequately protected) ground targets, and that’s the role it’s supposed to fill.
Yes, Japan has some serious minor nation tax, but bear in mind I’m basing my opinion entirely of playing it currently, it preformance is very up tier/ down tier dependent, which is an indicator of the core issue being compression.
That and how cheap zunis are, increasing their SP should be the first step in trying to balance the thing, before any BR changes.
If he stays away you already won by preventing him from doing CAS.
They rarely react by moving even when they’re aware of you. Vast majority of the time they just stand there.
I mean not at all. There are guepards at 8.3, PGZ88 at 7.7, ZSU 23-4M2 or v, ZSU 37-2, Falcon, Chieftain Marksman, ZSL-92, SIDAM-25, VEAK 40, …
On all the AAA between 6.3 and 8.3 (26 AAA), there is 16 closed top and 10 open top. And all the Open Top are all at 6.3 with the exception of the ZSU-57’s (7.0 and chinese with HE-VT at 8.0), and M163’s (7.3).
And honestly, a pop-up is just not possible, even less with 4 bombs under it. You need to play it to understand how underpowered this thing is.
Zuni’s aren’t reliable at more than 2-2.5km for direct hits. And with the current damage model, a single shell from it, even AP, will make your L39ZA explode in pieces.
And for shilka and all, the closed top reduces by a lot the overpressure at distances. Zuni’s only have 8kg of TNT; so it doesn’t act at all like an S-24 or S-250. I’ve seen people describing the Zuni’s at 7.3 like Kh-22’s. And sometimes, especially on guepards and the very weird turret shape and the frontal radar, it can tank a Zuni without dying.
i think Zuni’s at this BR combined with CCIP could be the cost of a GPS guided missile at toptier, so around 750-850sp depending on BR braquets.
Yup. But I think uptiering it would completly destroy it and go from good to trash, kind of like the TKX(P).
From what I’ve done in full uptier, facing more than 1 radar AAA at the same time is not manageable.
The jet wouldnt be too bad if other nations had similar at the same BR.
But as they dont it shouldnt of been added
For EG what BR does GB get zunis and CCIP?
Britain does not have any jets that fly anywhere close as badly as this thing.
Not exactly, the RCV is perfect to get into the L39, I only used it to get the plane. Fast to a cap, then some scoutings and sneeky barrels taken out and you’ve got it. Also raising it to 7.7 will result in less people using it, thus it being a lesser problem.
You still only have one tank and then are down to a 7.3 lineup.
And plus it still doesnt solve the issue of the fact its a gap filler. As I said, the next highest dedicated CAS plane is 3.7.
It really needs to stay 7.3, and a solution that keeps it at 7.3 is better than moving it to 7.7.
When Gaijin added the Heat/APFSDS/HE-VT/Laserange finder/STAB, where is the same comment？
Guess who has the MCLOS AGMs at 7.0?
And of course we can have more planes with ZUNI with CCIP in the future; Gaijin is just too lazy to add them in a single update
Before we got L39, I wish Japan will get something like the A1J or A37B to strengthen its CAS power, however, Gaijin just added L39 and a superpower SPAAs as their final decisions
No he still managed to lob off Zunis to my teammates away from my effective range
Albatross is underpowered engine wise, yes. But man CCIP Zunis in a 6.3-7.3 bracket is just disgusting. There’s barely any effective counter against it that can actually intercept it since most AAs at this BR are easily outranged mainly because of the open top nature except for the few closed tops.
Most non-radar AAs only have an effective range of only around 0.5-1 km meanwhile Zunis even without CCIP can easily make a rather accurate snipe against open tops and light armours at 1 km range. With CCIP you effectively doubled that range.