Krupp-Daimler KD-I Geschützkraftwagen 19 mit 7,5 cm Flak 16 n.A. L/36 The grandfather of the Flakbus

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I would like to suggest the KD-I Geschützkraftwagen 19 mit 7,5 cm Flak 16 n.A. L/36 pretty mucht the grandfather of the Flakbus.

The history behind it is a long path, starting in WW1 in 1918 going till somewhere befor or even in WW2.

In 1918 on basis of the KD-1 Artilleriezugmaschine (Artillery tractor) (from 1917 to 1918 were 1.159 produced) was the KD-I Geschützkraftwagen 19 build by equipping it with the 7,7 cm Flak L/27 and 7,7 cm Flak L/35 (Used at that time the same ammo as the 7,7 cm FK 96 L/27 with about 465m/s and 545m/s) which was made in the beginning to mobilize the 7,7 cm Flak L/27 for anti aircraft and anti balloon usage, beeing able to escape enemy artillery fire, while also beeing effectively used as an mobile anti tank platform beeing able to quickly react to enemy attacks of Tanks. The Vehicle was regarded highly by the Reichswehr for its high usability as AA and AT vehicle, beeing even kept after the War.

Then in 1930 to 1932 the major switch from 7,7 cm (so enemy captured equipment such as french 75 and russian 76,2 mm guns could and were drilled out to accept german ammo, which even a wide range of different guns were mounted on these vehicles from L/27 to L/35.) to the “new” uniform 75mm guns, as such the whole 7,7 cm Flak L/27 was taken off its Sockellafette and the 7,5 cm FK 16 n.A. L/36 was put in its place, beeing an even more powerfull armarment which was even used till the end of the war (also because of lack of alternatives). Overall 120 7,7 cm guns were accepted to be changed to 7,5 cm guns of which 80 were reserved for the KD-I even tho only 28 were officially allowed for germany.

Overall there were quite a lot of different guns and mountings used on them such as as above mentioned drilled out french and russian guns, but also going further than simple Sockellafetten going as far as mounting shields and even big turret arrays, but none of them where kept, only the by me suggested one with the 7,5 cm Flak 16 n.A. L/36 came to WW2. Further mentioning of them where in D 600 from 09.11.1935 and H.V.Bl. 1931 Nr 27 from 14.09.1931 where it was written that after using up all wheeles (still wooden wheels) new steel full rubber wheels are to be used.

Why i would like to see this vehicle? Old stuff can take a grip in game, but is still underrepresented and this is one of the vehicles which are actually quite good and will be quite usable (notice characteristics of the truck and gun below) Bringing an quite good Gun on a mobile chassis with similar playstyle ot the italian 100mm gun, but with greater effeciveness, otherwise the gun (essencially a 7,5 cm FK 16 n.A. L/36) would also have no place in game as it was not mounted on other vehicles to my knowlege (except in modified form on a DB Großtraktor) while it is also historically relevant in beeing the starting point of the stronger AT weapons for the german army, beeing set the golden standart in AT armarment, beeing the Basis for the 7,5 cm K. L/41 for the Pz.Sfl. II which later further develops into the KwK 40 and beeing one of the stronger AT guns used in the french attack.


Pictures:(Click to show)

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The Gun: 7,5 cm Flak 16 n.A. L/36 (a 7,5 cm FK n.A. L/36 in a Flak Sockellafette)

7,5 cm about 12-15 rpm -5 ° to +75° and 360° traverse at 25°/sec.

60 rounds of ammo across different containers around the flatbed and in the vehicle sides.


Ammo:(Click to show)

Ap:


K.Gr. Rot Pz (Apcbc) 6,8 kg 80 g Fp.02 und Np.10 (102,4 g TnTa) 650 m/s 110mm/10m

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Gr.38 Hl (Heat (No Tracer)) 4,4 kg 570,2g H.5+Fp.02 (969,34g TnTa) 450 m/s 52-55mm/10m

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Gr.38 Hl/A (Heat (No Tracer)) 4,5 kg 399g H.5+Fp.02 (678,3g TnTa) 450 m/s 81mm/10m

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Gr.38 Hl/B (Heat (No Tracer)) 4,57 kg 513g H.5 (872,1g TnTa) 450 m/s 87mm/10m

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Gr.38 Hl/C (Heat) 4,8 kg 515 g H.10 (875,5g TnTa) 450 m/s 115mm/10m

(Early no Tracer, implemented during production.)
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K.Gr. Rot. (SapHef (No Tracer)) 6,62 kg 655m/s 520g Amatol (520g aquivalent)(Some penetration (Historical 20mm/30°/600m)

(with A.Z.23 (0,15)(Ms.)
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He:


Sprgr.34 (He (No Tracer)) 5,74 kg 725g Fp.02 und Np.10 (928g TnTa) 665 m/s

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K.Gr. Rot. (Hef-TF (No Tracer)) 5,83 kg 662 m/s 520g Amatol (655,2g aquivalent)

(With Dopp.Z./60s Time Fuze)
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Utility:


K.Gr. Rot Nb (Smoke (No Tracer)) 6,2 kg 95g Pent 660m/s

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Schr. L/3,2 (Shrapnell-TF (No Tracer)) 6,08 kg 0,08 kg Blackpowder 661 m/s 46mm/10m

Some Incendary effect by the Pitch inbetween the balls.
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By “German Explosive ordanace -Projectiles and Projectile Fuzes chapter 5” it could also fire the Gr. 38 HL series, so the /B and /C as allready found in game with 87 and 115mm penetration respectivly.

Vehicle: Artillerie-Kraftzugmaschine Krupp-Daimler 100 PS

Weight: 8000 kg

Length: 6265 mm

Width: 2170 mm

Height: 2860 mm

Axle articulation: 30°

Engine: 4 or 6 cylinder 100 HP/74kw engine

Speed: 8 gears forward with 65 kmph (conflicting sources, going from 36 kmph with 10t attached load to 65 kmph)

3 reverse gears to 8,5 kmph

Wheelbase: 3750mm

Ground clearance: 400mm

Turning radius: 6,5m

Crew: for this vehicle in game somewhere between 6-10

Armor: around the Hull 3-4mm (wow so thick, will deflect some small he rounds and rifle bullets from afar, nothing more) No gun shield.

I am sorry for errors and slight missalingements, its just so old.

Source: DMG stellt erste Exemplare der Artillerie-Kraftzugmaschine K.D.I. fertig

Geschoßringbuch Band I

D. 435 Anlage 7 Munition der FK 16 n.A.

Das Gerät der Artillerie vor, in und nach dem Weltkrieg

Encyclopaedia of the German Army in the 20th Century

Vom Einzelschuss zur Feuerwalze: der Wettlauf zwuschen Technik und Taktik im Ersten Weltkrieg

Deutsche Artillerie 1934-1945

Weapons of the Third Reich An Encyclopedic Survey of All Small arms, Artillery and Special Weapons of the German Land Forces 1939-1945

German Explosive Ordanance Projectiles and Projectile Fuzes Chapter 5

Looks like fun! +1

Footage of the original 7,7 cm gun, but different chassis (Kw 14).

1 Like

How sure you about the ammunition? Some of it seems to be for the later 75mm guns used in WW2 if I’m not mistaken? I’m currently researching WW1 gun trucks but can’t find anything about the WW1 ammunition for the gun so I got curious when I saw this.
If you had any links that you could share that would be swell.

Yes i am shure about the ammo, im currently not at home and not at my PC, so i cant share the sources right now, however what i can tell you is:

Overall my sources are:
"Captured Ammunition Bulletin (i think it was No.5)
“Geschossringbuch I”
“Munition der FK 16 n.A. (neuer Druck 1939)” (iirc)
(Looking back at the suggestion, i allready had the sources there too.)

Yes, that is WW2 ammo, because this suggestion is for the 75mm FK 16 n.A. L/36, which was a interwar improvement of the vehicle (still used in WW2) from the 7,7, cm Barrle to the 7,5 cm Barrles to use standart german ammo.

I also made a 2nd suggestion for the same vehicle as used in WW1 with the original 7,7 cm Gun, which uses WW1 ammo.

Def +1. Not sure why so much no’s, grandpa flaktruck should get some more love!

1 Like

Added new pictures.