There were two Prototypes made
They used the turret from V1 and hull from V2 because Germany blew up the first vehicle before they retreated but the Soviets salvaged it.
Also they transported it whole by rail
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It’s the word the U.S. Army uses when describing what they did with the Panther II, figured they’re at least somewhat of an authoritative source. Jentz and Doyle have also used “evaluation” in the past as well.
Aye, it’s in effect, a similar situation to the French Panzer III/II Hybrid as I’ve said. As for the turret not being functional, it’s capable to being rotated and does physically function. Armor and Cavalry Collection has even showcased it on occasion whenever they move the thing between storage and the Tankodrome (cool name for a Display building imho).
Happens when you test vehicles, I mean, for example, even the second T28 had its engine blow up during testing which resulted in the loss of the vehicle. I’d hardly call the testers silly, in either scenario. That said, the Panther IIs engine lasted into the 70s at least so that’s something.
Hardly saying the U.S. should get all five Panthers (which coincidentally do still exist, the Armor and Cavalry Collection is the only place in the world you can see all the mainline production Panther’s on display. I’ve heard there’s a lot of Museums that are quite jealous of the fact). Just saying there’s an argument to be made for the U.S. to get a tank in a configuration they created, just like the French Panzer III/II.
E-Series got abandoned late in the war due to the worsening war situation. If I remember correctly there were claims that at least three to five E-25s were under construction by the time the war ended and were destroyed in May 1945. E50 was still being designed as of late 44 as far as we know.
Perhaps, I’ll admit that was just me quickly quoting Jentz and Doyle who made the argument that the development of Schürzen for the Panther I ultimately killed the Panther II project.
regardless, better to use test. less connotations.
in a way also similar to the swedish tiger.
irl it was nothing more than a gunnery target. in game its a service vehicle.
captured vehicles just shouldnt be added in game. its a stance i hold for all nations
manually, or if you prefer the extra manual method (literally turning from the outside),
except the functions dependent upon the hull connections such as electric drives and what not
agreed
the west likes to hold these sort of tank conventions. theyre still driving shermans around. even tigers.
they hardly created anything. they did exactly what the russians did. plop one turret onto a hull.
claims which are quoted by doyle or jentz from late war documents however remain unsubstantiated
only thing ive heard regarding E-50 is its roadwheels being real and used on an experimental panther hull
I’d personally say unmodified captured vehicles so the game can still get cool and unique additions
If so then the more historical and special vehicles that scream a certain country shouldn’t be given to any other than that country.
My thought has always been, if they’re interesting (modification-wise) or historically significant in some way, they should be added. So, i.e., stuff like Tiger 131 (having her in the German TT would be nice as well, though I’d imagine the legal hurdles would be something else entirely with all the patents Bovington has regarding it), the British Up-Armored Jagdpanther, the Panther Cuckoo, Italian Semovente B1 etc.
Not just the West, the idea’s been spreading for quite a while. There’s even a group in Japan that is restoring a Chi-Ha to running order, and the JGSDF runs a Type 89 I-Go every so often. It’s a cool concept, and I fully support it. Still nothing takes the cake from Kevin Wheatcroft, I mean, the man is restoring four Tiger Is, two Tiger IIs, a Jagdtiger, an Elefant, four Panthers, four Hetzer/G.13s, 13 different M4 Shermans of several varieties; among other things.
Turret swaps are a time-honored tradition and something legit every country in the world has done. It’s given us some truly “Galaxy Brain” level stuff that would be quite nice to see in-game.
Aye, just figured it deserves a mention that there are allegations they did exist, according to late-war docs.
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Highly disagree with historical significance apart from the up armoured jagdpanther since it was a modification the vehicle with historical significance can just come as limited time skins maybe a blog about the vehicle and it’s capture no need to add new vehicles into tech trees that don’t need them
a german vehicle fully. no british man designed or assembled any part of it.
they cant patent a german designed and made vehicle lol
gunnery targets
not special enough
ngl this is the first im hearing of it
but id rather not have it in italy.
yeah atp anything that isnt africa, central +south asia, china and russia is the east while everyone else is the west (in terms of culture)
not really special enough though… you cant have one standard for the maus but not apply it to the king panther
Actually I believe bovington do own 131 when it comes to online movies shows and games
theyve owned it after it was captured in WWII.
i mean to say its a stupid thing that they “own” tiger 131’s patents or copyrights or wtv
Well they do own that particular tigers copyright lmao
legally yes. but its a stupid thing regardless.
i mean its a german designed and built tank. not like bovington developed it
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The Italian Semovente B1 Bis is actually somewhat unique. It was one of a handful of B1 Bis produced and pressed into service by France without a turret. When the Italians got their hands on it for evaluation, they added a heavy armored plate over the turret opening,
The French produced ones had no such cover, so they were open-topped. In the case of one of them, No.505, it received an additional rear fuel tank, necessitating the rear be extended.
Both the Italian Semovente B1 Bis and French B1 Bis No.505 are sufficiently distinct from each other and the in-game B1 Bis to warrant adding, possibly as squadron or premium vehicles around BR 2.0.
These also wouldn’t be as painful to play as one would imagine. The Naeder system should allow all B1 variants to have hull aiming, but this is currently unrepresented.
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In fact, yes, and they did. Bovington has several ownership patents. So, legally speaking, with Tiger 131, its design, its image, and the name “Tiger 131”, among other things, are legally owned by Bovington. Any other institution is usually required to pay them royalties for using the name Tiger 131. It’s quite a fascinating thing they’ve managed to do, and it makes me wonder if they’ll do the same for Tiger II V2 as that’s their new big restoration project.
Its modified by Italy with extra armor so I’m fine with it popping up. It’s also something the Italian community has been heavily requesting.
Granted, Russia has also been doing it more often. I think their latest one was the Object 279 and the IS-7, which were restored last year, I believe.
Maus and the Panther II (G) aren’t even scratching the surface, there, my friend. Those aren’t even the cool and or cursed examples, there’s a ton of wild turret swaps, including but not limited to the:
Panzerkampfwagen 35R 731(f) mit T-26-Turm
Spoiler
Vânătorul de Care R35/T26
Spoiler
Yugoslav Partisan M3A3 with 7.5 cm PaK 40
Type 3 Ke-Ru
Type 3 Chi-Nu Kai
yes but you can see how thats a subjective standard
Yes, I can definitely see how subjective it is. To address your point about the Maus. With turret swaps, the Maus wouldn’t be counted. If anything, it’s a relatively standard operation that was done to it, sort of like taking the turret from one M1A1 and installing it on another M1A1. It’s adjacent to standard tank maintenance. The Panther II G, on the flip side, is taking a turret not originally intended for the II and slapping it on the hull. That’s where we get into the territory of it being a modification, similar to my examples.
+1 from me would love to see more captured vehicles as long as they come with very distinct skins to distinguish them from there actual nation counterparts for sim purposes
i could argue the maus v2 turm was never intended for the maus v1 wanne
I’ll be honest, I do not want german vehicles in american TT nor do I want american vehicles in german TT, unless they are modified or given or bought (in some amount) and not captured.
Hull 9 and 10 were cut with different ring diameter and roof armor to be used with turm II, hulls 1 and 2 could both use original turret and mockup. Mockup one existed because first turret was late.
keeping that in mind, a simple turret swap is not under my classification of a modification by a non operator nation.
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