The issue is that the gun mantlet can be penned by any APHE, and just ammo rack the ready ammo (happend to me with a bloody Panther), it melts agains HEAT (even with the addon armor), and all the hatches are 17mm cast (so 15-16mm RHA), so most HEAT/HESH/HE will just overpressure the crew.
Even things like the french 100mm HE hitting the turret front at the left side (above the driver hatch) will pen the hatch, and kill all the crew. Then the turret top has 3 said hatches, as well as a 30mm plate over the gun.
Churchill Mk. III is a mess and needs to be split into 2 vehicles. The vehicle model is armed with a 6-Pdr Mk. III but the in-game performance is that of the 6-Pdr Mk. V. It’d also be nice if they added a “Late” version. So it should look something like this:
3.7:
Churchill Mk. III (L/43): Add M86 APHE, would have worse performance than the US version due to less shell velocity thanks to the shorter barrel.
4.0:
Churchill Mk. III (L/50): Add M86 APHE, same performance as the US version, and APCR Shot Mk. I.
4.3 (new vehicle):
Churchill Mk. III Late: Has the turret and hull applique armour. Add M86 APHE, APCR Shot Mk. I, and APDS Shot Mk. I.
Cromwell Mk. I is in a similar situation, and should be split into 2 vehicles. The in-game model is armed with a 6-Pdr Mk. V but it’s in-game performance is that of a 6-Pdr Mk. III. So, again, should be something like this:
3.7:
Cromwell Mk. I (L/43): Add M86 APHE, would have worse performance than the US version due to less shell velocity thanks to the shorter barrel.
4.3:
Cromwell Mk. I (L/50): Add M86 APHE, same performance as the US version, APCR Shot Mk. I, and APDS Shot Mk. I.
AEC Mk. II is fine, but, if it got access to newer shells it’ll probably need to go up in BR as well. So I’d do a similar treatment as above, such as:
3.0:
AEC Mk. II (L/43): Add M86 APHE, would have worse performance than the US version due to less shell velocity thanks to the shorter barrel.
3.7:
AEC Mk. II (L/50): Add M86 APHE, same performance as the US version, APCR Shot Mk. I, and APDS Shot Mk. I.
Valentine Mk. XI would be fun with M86 APHE. Like the other 6-Pdr Mk. III vehicles it’d have worse performance than the US version. Then Gaijin could add a new Valentine Mk. X:
3.3:
Valentine Mk. X: Add M86 APHE, same performance as the US version, and APCR Shot Mk. I. You also get a coaxial Besa unlike the Valentine Mk. IX.
Valentine Mk. XI, Cromwell Mk. V, and Churchill Mk. VII would all benefit from having M61 APHE.
For the Conqueror specifically. Ed Francis recently found documentation of the Conqueror using APCBC. The exact same ammunition that the US T34 fires, T14E3. Which would probably solve the spalling issue until Gaijin can fix up APDS damage.
If someone can get that documentation from him, or find it themselves, a bug report could be made.
If they got rid of the the (clearly not working) shell shatter mechanic it would be alright… Just alright tho. The post pen damage of that gun doesn’t justify the reload waiting time. Combine that with the shells being made of glass atm it’s a woeful experience atm. I can deal with it’s long reload if the round im firing is actually worth the wait. Atm i just wouldn’t even play this thing. How bad are it’s statistics currently thanks to its ammo that it’s sitting at a lower BR than the leopard 1 with a stabiliser and bigger gun? If that’s not a wake up call to gaijin i dunno what is lol.
The stab isn’t that big of an advantage at that BR, but certainly helps.
And yes, fixing the APDS would help, but they will not, because it is not “realistic”.
I think a nearly halved reload time (8.5s with expert crew) and the removal of the ready rack (just like on the M103, it has no ready rack, so every shell can be reloaded in ~15s, instead of the patheticly low amount of 8 rounds on the Conq) would make it playable.
A stabiliser at 7.7 is a huge advantage imo. Like i say i am happy to have a long reload provided the round it worth the wait, with shell shatter it’s absolutely pointless to use. I’ll use the is4 for example, I’d rather use the is4 over the conqueror regardless of how much more pen it has or the stabiliser because i know when that is4 round connects it doesn’t shatter, doesn’t non pen because of a side skirt… It kills what im shooting, normally in one round, the conquerors gun in comparison ain’t even in the same league imo. I don’t want the conqueror to have a better reload i want the shell shatter for apds gone, the way it currently works is even if it hits 2/3 20mm spaced plates you’ll get a shell shatter because they’re spaced.
Just compare it to the M103. Even if the shatter is gone, the APDS deals waaaay less damage, it is waaaay less survivable, has a pathetically small ready rack (while the M103 can shoot all it’s rounds with the same reload), it has AP, HEAT, and HE, each better than the APDS/HESH combo, it has a .50 cal, it is faster than the Conq, has better gun depression…
The Conq needs a better reload too. Giving it a more consistent APDS would not change much.
And maybe even remove it’s ready rack…
If they fixed the trash round you could at least play it as a sniper. You can’t fix it’s armour if that’s what it had, but you can fix it’s firepower in game.
I agree 100%. I actually did the math regarding M86 from the 6-pdr L/43, by assuming that there would be a similar velocity drop on that round as seen with Shot Mk. 9 APCBC. This gives a velocity of 776m/s, which when punched into the Gaijin calculator gives 113mm of pen at point blank - more than sufficient for the BR range.
Also, we cannot forget about the Crusader Mk. III in granting M86 to all 6-pdr L/43s. If a Crusader III was ever equipped with a 6-pdr L/50, better still.
I also know that a Crusader was used to test out the Cromwell’s Meteor engine, but what gun that particular Crusader had, idk. I can imagine a Crusader Meteor with a 6-pdr L/50 being Britain’s best equivalent to the Pakwagen, in addition to giving Britain a tech tree T18E2 Boarhound since they actually operated the vehicle in North Africa.
The Concept 3 Armored Car has no available APHE to give the rather okay-ish cannon, but on the Dev Server introducing it several patches ago it had access to APDS and a Laser Rangefinder, both of which I’d love to see it get (with an appropriate BR increase).
Year 2024 and the British Rounds still love to shatter on the most minimal disturbance.
Shoots UFP of Leopard 1 SHATTERS
Shoots M48 NO PEN
Shoots T54s BOUNCE/SHATTERS
HESH is unusable and APDS is just straight unreliable to use, i only use AP rounds since they deal more damage (or at least more reliably but no where near as good as APHE or APFSDS)…
The 105mm and 120mm (of the Chieftains) is actually very good, since it is alloy APDS, while the crap used with the Conq, the 83mm, and the 17pds is carbide APDS.
The ones with the 84mm are just plain useless.
I played these 4 in the same lineup (when the Mk 10 was 7.7).
With the 84mm gun tanks, i could not even get 2 K/D (except the Caernarvon, by some miracle, but even that is just barely over 2), yet with the MK10, it was over 4, for around 320 matches (and then came the BR changes, and nothing but full uptiers against at lest 5 Object 279s, because why not).
