The gun on the Chi-Nu I would kill most tanks at 2.7. With a turret that rotates its functionally a better Ho-NI III.
When you use the term Equivalent you are not comparing which is better. You are comparing what it is designed to combat. In this case, the Chi-He is comparable to the M2A4/M5A1 Stuart tanks as that’s what it was primarily meant to engage.
The Chi-Nu however was a stop-gap tank meant to combat the Sherman Tanks. Just because it was a worse gun, no .50 cal, comparable armor doesn’t mean anything. Its armor was meant to protect the crew from Rifle Calibers and light cannon fire. Another thing is irl the Shermans due to their weight had difficulty traversing the island terrain. Often getting bogged down and often abandoned. So what Japan primarily engaged were light armored tanks or at best the M10 Wolverine Tank Destroyer.
If a Sherman did come. The Chi-Nu wouldn’t have much of a problem engaging it. Since those fights were going to be ambushed. That’s what Operation Downfall would have primarily been Ambushes, over ambushes, over ambushes.
None of this matters for WarThunder, which is also something I explicitly pointed out. What it was meant to do or what it did in real life does not matter for how it is in game.
And in the game it is just worse than the M4A1.
The armor not being meant to handle .50 cals because it didn’t face .50 cals in real life doesn’t matter, because in game it faces .50 cals. The Sherman being too heavy to traverse the island terrain so the Chi-Nu would primarily face lighter vehicles doesn’t matter because in game it faces Shermans either way, and also tanks are all modeled with the same ground pressure (unless you have an upgrade like Ostketten which increases grip with the ground ever so slightly to where there’s not much difference).
I think that the issue is that people can’t decouple BR from irl application in this discussion. The argument that it was bad for anti tank engagement irl should not be a factor in determining its BR as the only factors that does should be tank performance.
Simply put, if a vehicle performs badly for its BR, it goes down, OR, in very few cases, the vehicles surrounding it goes up. Either way, the vehicles that the Chi-Nu finds itself facing at 3.3 are above what the Chi-Nu is capable of.
In the game it performs fine, in uptiers it will struggle but then it is fighting things it never fought in real life, and the penetration nerf didn’t help it either especially when APHE shells right now aren’t as accurate to irl. Something that is supposedly going to change around the other half of this year.
Cool and many vehicles in the game face .50 cals, your point is?
It does matter cause in-game there are times when the Sherman performs a lot more sluggishly, Aside from this it’s called pick your targets. You have smoke shells for a reason. If you are blindly driving willing to commit then you are going to get killed cause of narrow vision. However, if you are willing to pick your targets, and disengage when you know it’s not something you can effectively face. Then you will do fine. Cause Japanese tanks in the game perform in the support role in long-range combat. They do not perform as well at being a brawler something both the Soviets and the US are. While Japan, the UK, and half of the German Tech Tree are not.
So if you’re gonna go into this I wish you the best of luck winning or even trying to convince me otherwise cause as much as I frown upon stats. I am a purely Japanese main. So I know what I’m saying cause all I’ve mostly played was Japan for over 6 or 7 years now. Which is about how long the tech tree has been in game.
I did say earlier I’m all for it to go down to 3.0 as well but I’m also not adverse to looking for lower as the 2.7 gap only has 2 other mediums in it (Italy - M15/42, Sweden - Strv m/42 EH).
The bigger reason for it to go lower would be the match maker as 3.0-3.7 is decently populated but depending on the amount of full uptiers to 4.0, I’d like the Chi-Nu to go down to 2.7 as it will most likely be pulled up to 3.0 to 3.7 in a overwhelming majority of matches anyways.
The problem is at 2.7 it gets Down tiers. So what you get is a vehicle that’s functionally seal-clubbing in down tiers but performing more on par at 3.0->3.3. So personally at 3.0, it will do fine. But at 2.7 that’s a bit too far for my liking. Since i rather not engage vehicles that have little chance of really winning the engagement.
The point was to show that what you said about the tank’s purpose in real life does not mean much.
There aren’t. The Sherman has better horsepower/ton, and again, ground pressure is equal in all tanks (with exception to Ostketten and Winterketten), so if the Sherman gets sluggish the Chi-Nu will also be sluggish. It’s just how the game works.
The Sherman can also just perform a support role just as well as the Chi-Nu can, if not better as it has a faster reload and better gun depression. But it can also perform other actions far better as it is just a better tank.
Hmmm, I wonder.
Oh, and performance is only 18 tons compared to 30.8 tons makes a massive difference when it comes to climbing certain hills. After all the Ho-Ni III was a mobile support battery.
That’s not a thing, there’s both simply standard medium tanks. Whatever roles they were intended for in reality and/or you’ve decided they should be aren’t relevant to BR discussions.
Yes, it is in the game. Other people will outright use tanks in the game as a brawler and lose a fight.
Long-range engagements, light tanks with scouting and smoke shells, Assault guns such as the STUG-III, Artillery pieces such as the Ho-Ro, and Vidar/K9. All are support units what are you gonna do with them oh yeah fight at a distance. Cause up close you’re screwed. At a distance, you have a chance.
The Sherman has a faster reload meaning it can throw smoke faster. It has a faster turret traverse meaning it can throw smoke in different directions faster.
Maybe in real life. Not in WarThunder, tank ground pressure is all effectively identical, so weight does not directly matter.
The Chi-Nu can have an advantage in a hill climb but that is purely if it finds itself in a speed interval where it has a slightly shorter gear that allows it to maintain a higher speed. Even then, just tested both tanks climbing a hill and reaching a bush on the other side and even with the Chi-Nu having that transmission advantage the difference was of 2 seconds, from roughly 30 to 28.
And in a hill where that advantage is not realized, the Sherman wins because it has higher hp/ton.
Partially agree, as already stated I want it at 3.0. 2.7 is far too much, it would be competing with stuff like the Strv m/42, which outside of mobility it’s objectively superior too (Man the m/42 is a sad tank).
I tend to find that the phrase “support vehicle” is usually code for “cannot do anything on it’s own, must rely on ganking distracted enemies”.
An easier to aim, slightly larger radius smoke shell is the most vestigial advantage I’ve ever seen. Even then, I’d argue that the .50 cal on the M4A1 makes it an equivalent or superior “support” vehicle as you can track enemies, engage aircraft and disable light flankers.
Having a faster reload doesn’t mean you can provide what’s needed. 2 of your shells are comparable to one of mine and in a fight, one shot makes a difference. Ex: Fire smoke, you drive through, APHE shell loaded, and all I need to do is wait.
Support vehicles include light tanks. M36 Jackson, M10 Wolverine, M22’s, M24’s. So I don’t understand what your trying to imply. When it is just a category of different vehicle types designed to support brawler tanks or flank the enemy to loosen up the approaching horde of tanks.
If that said brawler is struggling to win an engagement then tanks as the M10 or M36 are designed to engage it.
Ah yes because driving through smoke in an area you know has enemy tanks is a good idea?
So what, the Chi-Nu is a good support tank if the enemy is completely stupid…?
Both the Sherman and Chi-Nu smoke hold for 20 seconds. The only differences are muzzle velocity and radius, but if your smoke is placed well enough, the radius doesn’t matter as it will work either way.
