Japan is basically worst tank nation low - mid tier - please fix (brs, lineups etc.)

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
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Japan doesn’t have a lot of better light tanks that could be added. I hesitate to call either the Ke-Ri or the Ke-Nu “better,” given they’re effectively just reskinned Chi-Ha that are slightly faster but more poorly armoured. There is the Ke-To which was the best light tank they were able to put into mass production, but it would have the same mobility as the Ke-Ni, though with the benefit of the improved Type 1 37 mm and an anti-aircraft machine gun; the Ka-Mi uses the turret from it. The only better ones would be, if the former can be confirmed, a Ke-Ni experimentally mounted with the prototype 47 mm but which was immediately taken off because it was cramped to the point of unusability, and the Ke-Ho with better armour and a short version of the Type 1 47 mm penetrating 65 mm, though it wouldn’t have as good mobility as the other light tanks.

Technically the I-Gō was considered a light tank until 1935, so the 1934-production of the I-Gō kō with a new suspension and the machine gunner and driver having switched places, and the I-Gō otsu with the 120 hp diesel engine could be added as the best versions of the I-Gō “light tank,” too.

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Little follow up at the camo part of the topic. As I already said it does not make any sense for japan to have multi color camoflages for golden eagles as those were the moust common camoflages for japan and every front line tank was painted to match the area they were fighting in and those were often rainforrests and jungles of south east asia.
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China :

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But even at plains of Khalkhin Gol were multi color camoflages used by japanese empire- long before countrys like russia even bother considering multi color camos.
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(but ofc russia has multi color forrest camo for free in the game).
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While best japan can get is this :
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^ that to this (see the difference?) :
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Like to what area was even this camo even made for? I dont really think those are actuall camos tho. But rather unfinished/unpainted tanks that did not yet arrive to the front line to be painted to blend in with the region. Simmlary to how germans had red underpaint for their tanks. Because I cant find any ww2 photos of single color japanese tank in front lines outside things like naval grey for amphibious navy tanks (tho that color is also for GE btw + IJN special landing forces used their own mutli color camoflages) or after-war badly repainted tanks which is not accurate reprezentation of ww2 front line tank (and even if I missed some that were actually used in combat with single color camo then multi color camos will still be way more common) .

The brown olive line camo should just be made free and Ge given back to those that already has it. + there can be dozen of japanese camos added some could be free and some new ones for Ge and actually would have higher chance of getting bought as those would be new and interesting unlike current 8 year old ones. Such as:
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etc.

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Ofc I cant compare it to Jagdtiger because Jagdtiger is just better tank at the same job or kinda closest you can get to Ho-Ris job while begin lower br (while Jagdtiger having better gun, armour, max speed - while ho-ri has just reload and more engine power for its weight as only advantage). Its really just that ppl with less powerful guns just did not know where to aim at Ho-Ri back when it was released. I dont really see how much different their playstyles are given they are both superheavy tank destroyers and neither is intended for flanking as they have no turret and only direction you want your enemy in those tanks is far away in the front of your tank. Yet. Both Ho-Ris cant penetrate Jagdtiger even from point blank except for very small weak spots of mg port and small area right below the gun that bounces the shell down.
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While Jagdtiger can penetrate ho-ri prototype that is at its Br at 2000m range and also can penetrate most of Ho-Ri production cheeks but that is 7.3 tank. Not even talking at Ho-Ri productions Br there are just ton of rocket tanks that dont care about its “armour”.

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I think for japan they should add more friendly tanks to use for reserve, like maybe make normal chi ha a reserve tank, i do way better with the aircraft in that tree than with the tanks
but—Comparing stuff like ZIS 30/marader by tank round armor pen alone isnt a good idea, if u tried out either the zis 30 is a barely usable tractor and the marader is bad to maneuver
Havent gotten far enough with the other tanks to consider but almost all of them of most ranks are very easily defeated playing against them

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I am not sure if you read my message from original statement about Ho-Ni 1 and 3 properly. I was actually stating that Ho-Ni 1 has actually more armour in the most needed areas 50 mm (two 25mm plates) while Ho-Ni 3 has just 25mm and that can be easily penetrated by 12.7 mm MG while the same part can’t be with Ho-Ni 1. Then Ho-Ni 3 roof is just 10 mm and moust planes will go through even so its not open to like Ho-Ni 1 so its slightly better. = my point was that Ho-Ni 1 has better anti tank protection and Ho-ni 3 has somewhat better anti air protection + having more crew (which in a cramped tank gets oneshot anyway so it does not matter very much). So they really should just be same 2.0 br to make a better lineup and not put one at 2.3.

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They are very small = can hide and have so high penetration for their Br that they can still do just fine if playing 2 br higher. Sure Chi-Ha long gun is something between He and AP with its Naval shell and you can sometimes just overpressure the enemy tank but thats very inconsistent as its TNT fillar is no way close to Chi-Ha short gun that has same size gun or Ho-Ro. So moust of the time if you dont penetrate with chi-ha lg poor penetration it just does not do anything. it still lacks in penetration greatly and would be better for lower br lineup given it has also just 10 shells.

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he is right >: |

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Yeah.

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Also why is Ho-Ro depression just -5° insted of previous -10° now?

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This is what I meant by that you cant start with japan ground (meaning it also does not have any free starting premium)
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Japan was as bad at 1br as expected but oddly it was fun after that. I just bought the premium at around 4 and worked up to it.I enjoyed Japan even with the gaps and supposedly below par vehicles.That is why copy paste can be bad,nation’s lose personality

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No. No, it shouldn’t. However adding other variants of the I-Go, as well as other vehicles that utilize the same gun as the Chi-Ha’s would remedy the issue.

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i agree japan irl is one of the most modern militaries and yes top tier is good but they should change and rehaul tier1-4/5 japan

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Here, take this:

  • +1 cope

Japan 1.0 has good gun on light and good HEAT on medium reserves. It has a reserve BR arty. It has awesome tier 2, it is so good with mobility and gun firepower (which I can see stays awesome for tier III and gets import vehicles for tier IV) that I got bored of playing it and switched to painful France and became a Frenchmain.
You are coping so hard, Japan has great tanks and top tier is rated pretty high due to their mobility, fire rate and iirc thermals.
Nothing is worse than French lowtier, and nothing is worse than Jewish or Italian toptier.

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HoRi does not even exist irl and in this form it never did. Unfair comparison, wait for real prototype

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Kid, if all you do is read half of title and your experience with japanese vehicles is overall like 10-15 battles in like 6 japanese tanks while having mostly negative k/d then dont yap here about “cope” while you main fr*nch. You are most likely just mad how you sometimes get killed by japanese tanks because only people that play japanese low mid tier tanks are usally just grinding their last tree or just like the game hard.

Nothing is worse than french low tier? Bleh brain dead heavy tanks (b1s) with armor that is basically invulnerable in full low tier while even medium japanese tanks like chi-ha kai of the same br can get easly penned by 12.7 mms/50 cal from the front? 40mm AAs that have pen enough for heavy tanks at their br? Cancerous E. B. R.s etc. At least french have solid lineups. Japan does not and it can be fixed by adding japanese tanks and fixing their brs to make the lineups.

It never existed in any finished form to my knowlage. There are multiple designs. Some are just paper, some unfinished and the one in game has scale mockup.

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While another version has kept the Chi-Ri hull 37mm gun. Whith chi-ri hulls existed and the main gun too so that might be more realistic version. Still
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We can argue how burning shit of each trees is better or worse than burning shit of the other tree but that does not fix anything and is pretty pointless imo.
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Chi-Ri Ho-Ri had 5 prototypes in 50% ready stage.

And you certainly do not realize how bad France is. Don’t call anyone a kid when you really dont know anything about the game by only playing Japan. B1 is the only their vehicle that can take some hits if you do not angle properly (the other being D2), and it has awful armor if you know where to shoot (60mm max, every stock tank of any nation can pen it except well Japan and Italy, but those never get there on their BR)

unironically, I’ve almost never been killed by any Japanese tank. Maybe multiple times Ho-Ri and once a Ho-I, and that’s it. They are so unskilled meanwhile they have great mobility, powered and pretty fast turret rotation, and great APHE with decent pen, they could have killed my Shermans (iirc I used that to defeat Chi-Nus too) easily.
In general I meet them too rarely, most have just grinded up to TKX, which is like the most mobile top tier rn.

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Japan 1.0 has good gun on light

Excluding the Ha-Go Japanese 37mm’s & 47mm’s aren’t bad but they aren’t anything special either since they don’t have the high pen of the American or British AP rounds or the HE post pen found on the Soviet 45mm or even the Italian 47mm

good HEAT on medium reserves

It’s less that he HEAT round on the 55mm is good and more that the 55mm APHE round is so bad that it makes the HEAT round looks good in comparison. I’m legitimately surprised by the fact that the 55 APHE round is not removed like the 37mm SA18 APHE round

It has a reserve BR arty

Except not really you still need to research them first and Japan is not the only country to have low BR Arty, Germany has the Strumpanzer II which is basically like the Ho Ro but better in every way, there’s also the Spj fm/43-44 in the Swedish TT and if Howitzers are counted in the equation the M8 Scott in the US & Chinese TT’s

It has awesome tier 2, it is so good with mobility and gun firepower (which I can see stays awesome for tier III and gets import vehicles for tier IV)

Not really. Aside from the Ch-Ha Kai, Chi-He, Chi-Ha LG, Chi-Ha SG and if we count foreign vehicles the M16 for Tier II. The Chi-To’s, Chi-Nu II and for foreign vehicles the M24 & M44. Everything else is legitimately bad; the Chi-Ri is a worse Delat Torn while being the size of a Heavy Tank, the So Ki is useless especially since the introduction of the M16, the Ho Ni’s feels like gimped Marders, the TT Chi Nu is mid at best and the Na-To does the same job as a Dicker Max but worse. The vehicles i listed that aren’t bad i wouldn’t consider amazing either just ranging from “Just Okay/Average” to “Good” with the Chi-To’s being the best of the bunch followed by the Chi-He

Japan from Tier IV onwards definitely gets a lot better though there are still some stinkers. In Tier IV specifically the Type-60 ATM and the ST-A1 & A2 are not that good at all. Tier IV Japan is better than Tier IV Israel, Italy and even Tier IV Sweden but worse than Tier IV everybody else including Tier IV France.

Nothing is worse than French lowtier

Datable. Yes France does have some horrible tanks at Tier I & II such as the AMR.34 YR so bad that you cannot research it conventionally anymore and is one of 3 tanks in the French TT that is like that. The SAu 40 is trash and i’m not a fan of the M10. Tier I (and to a lesser extent early tier II) France has the worst CAS ingame and it’s not even remotely close. The H.35, FCM 36, R.35 & H.39 is bad though they do have one redeeming factor that is they have semi-decent armour*. On the other hand low tier France do have some good tanks even domestic ones, especially their heavies. Also the Lorraine 37L, the S.35 & D2 are also surprisingly okay. France also has better SPAA than Japan has (The Ta-Se and M16 are the only SPAA that you should bother in the Japanese TT) though both Tier I Japan and Tier I France still has better SPAA than Tier I Sweden.

I’d argue that if you want to suffer playing as France play the B.R range of 8.0 - 8.7 is a better bet since most of the French Tanks in that BR don’t have stabilizers or even HEAT-FS (only regular HEAT) in a BR range that is increasingly common for Tanks to have one, the other or even both. On top of that you don’t have the benefit of facing newbies like you do in Tier I

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Ch-Ha Kai is basically just like BT-5 reverse but slower and at 2.3 and Chi-he is the same tank with just 25 mm extra armor at 2.7 none of which deserve its br and should go back to their original brs.

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Nah they are totally fine. BT-5 gets killed by .50cals, only has three crew and doesn’t have a shoulder stabilizer or -15° gun depression.