Correct, but all three fall into the same basket, which is why my first reply addressed this.
The Tortoise, T95, Jagdtiger, and Object 268 all fall into a similar basket.
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That is not correct, the T95 has much stronger frontal armour than the Jagdtiger. It is so strong, that it in fact can resist many early APDS and 350mm HEAT-FS.
In addition to smaller weakspot. In my experience, cupola of T-95 is harder to hit, and does less damage when hit compared to Jagdtiger weakspots.
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Not really. Both are pretty identical in armor protection frontally with only an average of 20mm differing on their front plates. Against threats at their BR, the Jagdtigers mobility advantage helps a lot. Especially when all HEAT shells at the BR cut through both of them no matter the armor.
Neither is going to survive a hit from HEAT at that BR. Any shell with above 280mm of penetration cuts through them both without issue. That’s every singe Rank 3 HEAT shell and above.
The MG port of the Jagdtiger has volumetric issues and deletes shells. The Cupola of the T95 does not and is a larger weak point.
Lets also not forget that the T95 is the slowest vehicle in the entire game.
T95 faces newbies who rushed Tiger and Panther and think they are invincible and can lolpen everything XD.
jokes aside, the tank itself may have some drawbacks but its get backed up by superiour murican cas aswell.
Î guess iam not in this group of people.
Normally i bring at least 5 APCR (mostly american 76/90mm) with me and APDS all the way with British and have no issues shooting the cheeks of it and then getting tracks, barrel or flanking it for the kill shot.
Also Tortoise can have as much as a 10 sec faster reload the the jagtiger.
wich doesnt mean its a bad thing, in return its pseudo stabalized like the tortoise wich grants bedder first shoots.
Tortoise: 8.6s reload, -10 depression, 40deg gun arc
Jagdtiger: 18.2s reload, -7 depression, 20deg gun arc
JT also traverses much slower.
Type 61’s HEATFS with 320mm penetration has no issue with a Jagdtiger anywhere from the front, but a T95 will reduce its damage to the point where it barely does anything or just stop it entirely.
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You are using a 433mm penetration HEAT shell for the protection analysis?
Also, note that even with 433mm penetration, the penetrable area of T-95 is far lower compared to penetrable area of Jagdtiger.
Put in the -19km/h reverse speed for the Tortois aswell, wich grants some extra points in survivability
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Damn, I didn’t know it was that fast. Didn’t even look. Died many times in the JT due to poor reverse speed.
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Aircraft shouldn’t dictate the BR of a tank. If it did, the Maus would go much lower than 7.7.
Neither am I, as I always bring APCR when it has good characteristics.
Let’s not forget this atrocity.
The problem is that the T95 can take an entire match to get to the battlefield and doesn’t provide armor significantly higher than 6.7 vehicles. Sure, its overall armor is better, but you lose all mobility for it. Imagine if the Maus was at 8.7 because the armor resembles those vehicles. It wouldn’t make sense because the mobility is that much worse.
You still disable the vehicle frontally at any range without having to aim.
On top of that, the spots that are not labeled as green can still sometimes be penetrated.
Sure, the Jagdtiger takes more damage, but I’ll restate that it’s much faster and provides similar kinetic protection on its front. These vehicles are nearly equal in their capabilities, so it doesn’t make sense for them to have a different BR.
That’s literally every 6.7 HEAT shell.
Pretty much every single 6.0+ HEAT weapon does the exact same damage. Anything above 280mm cuts through both like butter. Not even 5.7 HEAT-FS shells are below that amount.
Now imagine if that was your front speed. That’s the T95.
No, you have to aim to avoid the mantlet or the weird angles on the front. Many times that HEATFS shell has failed to penetrate.
Meanwhile JT can be shot anywhere at any angle.
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Not true.
For example, M48A2 C (7.7) HEAT-FS is 320mm. M41 has measly 254mm. Raketenautomat (8.0) 320mm pen rocket. BMP-1 is 300mm. SU-122-54 (6.7) 400mm. Type 69 (8.0) HEAT-FS pen is 400mm.
When you look at the average throughout the BR range of T-95, you can see that is is far below 433mm penetration.
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As if JT ever reaches its top speed.
Jagdtiger is 3 times faster than the T95, it is bound to have less armor.
Mobility is a major factor in balance. While it is true that the Type 61’s HEAT-FS will struggle, that is not the same for every HEAT shell. Much of the HEAT and HEAT-FS shells at that BR do not struggle like the Type 61.
Anything above 300 comfortably goes through these both at any angle. And while not “all” 6.7 HEAT is above 300mm of penetration, it is disingenuous to find one or two and use those as the average. When it comes to HEAT penetration at 6.0 to 6.7, there are next to none lower than 300mm.
All of these are 400mm penetration and above vehicles between 6.0 and 6.7. There is a significant chunk also found with 320 to 380mm of penetration as well. I will not list them simply because it’d double to triple this list.
The T95 sees APFSDS. You’re being disingenuous. There are a small handful of tanks with a penetration lower than 300mm at that BR, and they always have some advantage elsewhere.
The Jagdtiger manages to sit above 30 kilometers per hour reliably while on the move. The T95 cannot go higher than 12.8 kilometers per hour at all.
You have an assortment of vehicles which are uncommon to see. One is US, 2 Israel, 1 France premium, 2 Italian, 2 Japan, 1 UK, 1 German GJN market vehicle. Only common are 2 USSR vehicles. You see, I do not deny that having 400mm penetration is common on many vehicles, but you are being hypocritical when you accuse me of cherry picking. I used mainly German and USSR vehicles for a reason, they are the most commonly seen against T95.
Guess what? HEAT-FS/ATGM vehicles are relatively uncommon. Standard AP shells are almost completely ineffective. For example, T95 is almost completely frontally immune to the strongest AP shell, found on M103 and AMX 50 Foch.
The T95 sees APFSDS. You’re being disingenuous.
Early APFSDS is often less effective than you may think. For example, take the Type 71 APFSDS on Type 69, top penetration 219mm. Other nations either have similar APFSDS at the BR or have none. The only good APFSDS at the BR range is Object 120.
There is a significant chunk also found with 320 to 380mm of penetration as well.
This is correct, but the T95’s weakspots against that range are surprisingly small.
Here is the performance against M431, which has 320mm of penetration. You can immediately see that the penetrable area is localized to the flat area around (but not including) the mantlet. This makes missing shots at range quite easy, and avoiding shots using angling or wiggling very easy as well.
I did not list the ones from 300 to 399mm of penetration because I do not want to post a brick of messages that would take up too much space.
No, you did Cherry Pick a single 6.7 vehicle with some of the lowest HEAT penetration at its tier. You also went out of your way to grab vehicle examples well outside of the 6.0 to 7.0 BR bracket.
The German M41 Bulldog is not particularly common. In fact, I’ve barely seen it played ever. What you did is listed vehicles an entire BR above the T95 for some reason. No one in their right mind plays a heavy and slow vehicle in an uptier.
You’re completely forgetting the Magach 5, which gets DM23 at 8.0. To make it worse, 8.0 is absolutely filled with vehicles that have shells capable of cutting through a T95 with complete impunity.
That is not small. That’s a third of the front, and the sides that aren’t “Green” can still be penetrated at times.
M431 is a 5.7 HEAT shell. It is found on the M36B2 at the lowest.
You cannot angle a T95. It exposes the ammunition to the HEAT Shell.
The a39 🐢 is perhaps one of the worst TD I’ve ever played, downright worse than the T28, armor is crap compared to other TDs and it only has AP so it lost in the post-pen department, the optical zoom for some reason also shit, I’ve never been successful in this thing lol only redeeming thing is the reload speed compared to other TDs, but it’s also way too slow considering it has like 50 crews in there?? Almost 10 seconds to reload a puny 96mm shell when the interior is the size of a mansion? It also cannot turn when you are reversing
No? It just being better than the tortoise doesnt justify being overtiered at 7.0 where it would be useless
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Also T95 is definitely better than the other two mentioned…
Yes the M-51 is undertiered, that much is obvious.
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If players cannot figure out how to destroy a jagdtiger or maus, they need to play more creatively. You highlight all the weaknesses of many German (and USSR) vehicles, but sadly the player base is still stumped on how to defeat these slow vehicles. Most players only care about whether or not they can “pen” the front armour, and they never imagine that they can play scouts, mark targets, and shoot from the flanks. To the average player, War Thunder is a game of who has the best front armour, and people question whether nations are viable (besides USA, Germany and USSR)
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