Would say 11.3->11.7
Nope, that makes 0 sense.
Mig 23 is much bette at 11.7, with all aspect missiles and 2 R24R’s (much better than Aim-7E-2’s) while also having more CM, and a much better FM.
People just need to remember it has a PD radar and they won’t die to it as often. The plane is good, but it’s made even better by dumb players going headon with it.
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11.7 maybe? I find it quite annoying to go against
Like it has only two 7e2 but can use them at people who are low unlike the 11.3 f4, which is really good in the average lobby, at least when I see the killfeed. Probably cause it’s pretty much the first plane to have this and players aren’t going low enough, but sometimes regardless of you being low if the map doesn’t have flat land it’ll still end up hitting you. Haven’t played it myself so I don’t know how it performs I just know it’s quite fast if you give it long enough.
We need to first increase ratings of current 11.7 and 12.0 but devs seem adamant on mostly balancing only the highest tier…
One of my worst enemies when I’m playing 11.0, but then I don’t see them out in groups. 11.3 seems too strong but then 11.7 feels weird too
Their flight performance is also fairly mediocre for a delta at that BR.
It could go higher but I don’t see why the need of that particular plane decompressing without the proper top tier moving, with everything else going up a bunch of steps as well.
Don’t get me wrong, compression exists and there’s some annoying cases, but isn’t turning any BR unplayable other than the 13.0-13.7 range.
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I think there are much worse offenders right now of their current br (premium Su-30’s). The one greta thing the JA37C has is its pulse doppler.
It’s perfectly fine where it’s at. If you don’t want to die to it, don’t go head on with it. You will get slammed by it.
If you have played the Viggen, you can see why it is at 11.3.
It doesn’t have the performance or missiles of the Mig-23, and is honestly just fine where it is. Aim-9J’s aren’t fantastic and the Aim-7’s are good. Nothing crazy though.
you’re right about everything except the flight model there
and 12.0 of course
It’s not OP. I think it’s a bit unfair for it to be one of the few PD aircraft at 11.3 but the Phantoms should have Pseudo-doppler to even that out—and considering how many nations get it. It would be worthwhile to add it in.
Ehh, Aim-7E-2 to Aim-7F isn’t a massive step up.
I really doubt that. I don’t have the JA37C to compare, but I see no reason that it’d be worse than the 4Js.
The F-4J is hot af though.
The JA37C gets far better radar, that being PD rather than PD HDN so its Sparrows are more potent than the 4J’s. It may not be quite 12.0 material, but it certainly doesn’t belong at 11.3 with the F-4E.
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the 7F, if it actually worked consistently and didn’t track the fucking air (like the E2 and basically every sparrow except the 7P does), would be a huge upgrade. even without a functioning seeker, the 7F is much superior. the E2 is good but overglazed by its users, as it has no more than 2-6km effective range at any given time
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The E-2/Skyflash struggles to hit headon targets beyond about 8 km, whereas the F can and will hit 20 km shots quite consistently if the target doesn’t defend appropriately.
People really like to overhype the difference in instantaneous pull and acceleration, but it’s a blink and you’ll miss it difference.
Any shot you can hit with an E-2, you’ll hit with an F. And you’ll also be able to engage that guy sitting at altitude without having to climb yourself into suicidally close range first.
Worth noting that a lot of people’s experience with the Viggen was back before the massive nerf wave went through. Back when it was a fairly competitive delta flight model. You’d still bleed speed pretty badly in turns, but you’d be able to hang on for a bit and, if you were smart, outfly MiG-23s and hardwing Phantoms.
Then Gaijin murdered it’s energy retention. One hard turn, and you’re almost falling out of the air. Combined with it’s mediocre low speed acceleration, your only hope is to one circle whatever you’re fighting, as after that point practically anything will be able to outrate you.
So is the Viggen. Have you seen the size of the engine on it? You get large caliber countermeasures to somewhat compensate, but so few of them you have to ration pretty aggressively.
Good luck using Skyflashes outside of a headon engagement. You’d be lucky to hit a 4km shot if the enemy is at or near your energy state (Which it won’t be, since odds are you bled all of your speed in the merge while the enemy is free to just fly away).
Meanwhile, the F-4J also has a HMS, and an actually useful RWR (The Viggen’s is most comparable to something like the SPO-15). So you can play at higher altitudes where you have more range with your missiles without being blind as a bat.
Why not? Thanks to the Agile Eagle slats, the F-4E can very easily hang with the Viggen in the one circle, leaving the Viggen with exactly squat in terms of options. All it can do is hope and pray that the F-4E is dumb enough to just fly in head first without multipathing or cranking, and headbutt a Skyflash.
Really, that’s the single thing the Viggen C does well. And once those two missiles are gone, you’re stuck with a plane that bleeds all of it’s speed in one turn, has to rely on pretty mid AIM-9Js, has a gun with no tracers and very limited trigger time, very few flares, a prehistoric RWR, and about 7 minutes of fuel if you ever intend to afterburn.
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You’re forgetting the most important part, if the Viggen gets hit anywhere with slight damage the vehicle will basically become unresponsive 102% of the time lol
Yellow forward stabilizer? Yup no more rolling for you, well not without nose diving into the ground
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What do you mean it “easily hangs” in the one circle?
Bro. the viggen is a giant delta wing. It has the same weaknesses and strengths that all deltas have. It makes one or two god-tier turn and then dumps all it’s energy into the dirt.
F-4E can pull pretty good high AoA at high speeds but it only beats the viggen if you 2 circle it. Just because I slap a wing on my dumptruck, doesn’t counteract the fact that it’s still a dumptruck.
I’ve regularly fired E-2s at planes from 15km and it can work fine. You act like they’re worthless. They’re not. I honestly prefer them over the F’s in some scenarios. I prefer how quick they’re able to jump off the rail. the AIM-7E-2 and F also arrive at basically the same time if within 10km anyway. And even when I fire at 20km or so away, the missile is Driving Miss Daisy slow that I would be within kissing distance from my enemy anyway by the time it arrives. The best scenario for the AIM-7Fs is when people are trying to run away from you.
Not always.
You unironically believe some slats on a phantom makes it turn as well as a delta?
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By “hang with”, I mean not instantly lose the one circle. The Viggen will have gained a decent amount of position, but nowhere near enough to win the fight (Unlike hardwing Phantoms, where depending on energy states it might), and it would have blown almost all of it’s energy. At this point, the F-4E can easily just out rate the Viggen, leaving it helpless.
In order to win the two circle, the Viggen needs to come in with a sizable energy advantage, and the F-4E has to not fly conservatively.
This would only be the case at altitude and against a target that attempts no defensive manuevers at all. The E-2 only burns for a little over three seconds, so even though it’s technically a higher thrust motor, it has significantly less delta V and thus very little ability to pull lead without dumping all of it’s speed. Even against a target that’s flying perfectly straight at low altitiude, it drops below Mach 1 at 7km, making it laughably easy to kinematically defeat outside of point blank range.
This is just flatly untrue. At low altitude, the F overtakes the E-2 at about 4 km. The F makes it to 10km at about 15.6 seconds, while the E-2 limps over the finishline in 23. Also worth noting that at 10km, the F has over double the amount of energy in the tank, meaning it’s far more capable of engaging defending targets.
It evens out more at high altitude, but even at 8km the F still overtakes the E-2 at about 7 km, and you aren’t going to be climbing that high to fire SARH missiles at only 7 km from the enemy.
Feel free to test it yourself here.
Pretty much always. The E-2s advantages are a slightly faster time to target at very close range, and slightly better pull. Both can be easily accounted for by taking an extra second to get a better firing solution. It’s not like either of them can pull MICA-esque off boresight shenanigans anyways, so taking an extra second to line up a shot where the missile doesn’t have to pull that hard isn’t the end of the world.
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It cannot be overstated just how minor this advantage really is as well, but its all people like to talk about when they try to act like aim7e2 is better than a missile with 5x its range and the same pull that also pulls 0.7 second sooner than the 7e2
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You can say this about literally almost every single delta wing aircraft.
Bruh. 10km away.
We learned this in nuclear thunder btw. When you’re going to be missile jousting, especially the beginning of the match, and you have two high speed planes closing in. At 20km The AIM-7F is so slow that you can almost keep up with it. if you keep up with it. You, as in YOU the pilot are going to be within roughly the same range as if you fired the AIM-7E-2 once it impacts.
Now if you both fire within 10km. Their impact time is practically the same.
I’m not going by “Well! If you do this in a vacuum! This happens!” I’ve fired my missile before at some of the most oblique angles with the E-2. I’ve practiced manually slewing my F-4E’s radar to get locks at some of the most awkward angles and even when the enemy is desperately chaffing and avoiding. I still hit them with the Ol’ smackaroo. within 10km. Sure the missile loses, speed, but you also lose speed as well trying to dodge a missile hurtling at you from somwhere as short as 10km away. Everytime I’ve had a miss it was within a hair’s breadth.
The AIM-7F is still the better missile, just due to pure burn time. But stop acting like it’s some god-tier rod that takes a fat dump allover the AIM-7E-2
Actually. I need to add. If I recall, the AIM-7F and M should have a mode where it should pull similarly as hard as the E-2 if you fired within close ranges (I think it was 15km). But gaijin won’t add it. If that’s the case, then only then would the AIM-7F and beyond would be outright better.