@_David_Bowie 央视频
the show is about a specific squadron in west China using J-8F
image from 4:40 and 4:50
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This is my mistake, I thought it was a repeat of the same argument based on the same photo as before.
We have the following sources:
- Source referring to the J-8F having removed CWI
- Source referring to only CW guidance available for the PL-11
- Source referring to PL-12 is the only MRAAM available in the J-8F FCS
Therefore, it is logical to assume that the PL-11 was upgraded to used in J-8F. More likely is that the PL-11 received an upgraded seeker to allow HPRF guidance rather than CW guidance.
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It might be the alleged PL-11B ARH version
I want to know if the J8F will have IRCCM missiles as a 12.3BR fighter jet after version 2
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Yes that does seem the likely case, the Chinese sometimes do like to upgrade equipment and not make any designation changes. The new book I got also claims the J-8F can use the Pl-11’s:
I was going to type up a new bug report, but I so far it looks like it will end up like the other reports that have used that new CCTV footage and got rejected for the usual ‘not a valid source’ lol. What’s the source on the CWI being removed? I did read that J-8H’s and J-8F’s were supposedly getting further modernization that made the 2 basically identical, perhaps the CWI illuminator was re-installed on the F’s and the H’s received the datalink on its back?
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Some sources claim that PL11A has added radio command mode, allowing the aircraft to only provide final guidance.Assuming this is true, perhaps J8F can guide missiles to hit targets using the method of radio command correction +IOG.
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@Lightning_in_the hi, I saw your issue but I can’t see the information picture, can you share it here
J8F lacks SE2 MAWS // Gaijin.net // Issues
My assumption is that perhaps the PL12 did not work as intended and the timeline seem to suggest this as J8F is seen a couple months before we saw a PL12, so it could be that PL12 was not ready at the point where J8F was ready, the video also game the date for when the PL12 was tested and J8F I believe was spotted almost a year prior so they might upgrade PL11 to allow immediate capability for J8F and utilise the PL11 as temporary replacement. You can have a look at the video, quite interesting.
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Yeet, we have two secondary sources aren’t we :)
Well no primary (classified) sources available I guess.
Two secondary source will also do I think
Yeah, but it also depends on whether they consider secondary sources enough, or they might even consider them as tertiary sources, and we need to make sure the video is used so that there is sufficient evidence to prevent NOT A BUG.
I don’t trust foreign sources about Chinese vehicles because they mostly get their information from unreliable places like internet forums.
One of the most reliable sources, the “中国飞机全书”, does not mention PL-11 in the armament of the J-8F.
It’s hard to assume it’s simply missing, because the armament of the J-8H mentions a PL-11.
This is not simple: the J-8F cannot guide the PL-11 because it does not have a CW illuminator.
Therefore, this is a different version of the PL-11 missile, and it is likely to have different capabilities than the original PL-11. Without more information on this, the report will be rejected.
Do not assume that simply because XX uses XX that something will be added straight away, you will need to supplement this.
Basically, in the paper “歼八×型飞机综合火控系统” in addition to the “中国飞机全书” mentioned above, we can see that the FCS of the J-8F does not have CWI.
Additionally, I couldn’t find the original article, so I’m replacing it to the internet news.
F型重点改进了电子、火控、导航 等系统，是全天候歼击机。主要改进有以下两点：用PL-12导弹替换PL-11导弹，并相应改进了综合火控系统；用无线电指令发射机替换连续波照射器，并提高了脉冲多普勒雷达的作用距离，以便与PL-12导弹的射程相匹配。
This means that the Type 1492 radar on the J-8F does not have a CW illuminator.
This is unlikely, CW illuminators are obsolete technology, so there are two possibilities: either the PL-11 was modified to allow HPRF guidance, or the J-8H converted to a J-8F retained the ability to use the PL-11.
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hardly possible, J-8H is accepted almost same time as J-8F. Most are upgraded from old version like J-8B. Kind likethe relationship between J-11A MLU and J-11B
This kind of book usually lacks details, though, can miss something. It’s a reliable source, compared to foreign sources, but can’t be fully trusted.
I saw this paper before, though very detailed, but found it’s too early, that time at 2002, it’s almost unfinished. some source say PL-11 is the back up plan while PL-12 wasn’t working well until around 2008.
飞机综合火控系统试飞支持和装机前检查系统的设计与实施 - 道客巴巴 (doc88.com)
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I was basing my comment on the project he mentioned, which is to upgrade the J-8H to the J-8F standard.
Sure, but there is almost zero reason for the previously mentioned PL-11 to be abruptly removed from the J-8F part.
And the reference to the CW illuminator being removed continues to be repeated after that paper. Even if the PL-11 is the backup plan, it still has to be retrofitted with a different guidance scheme than the original.
So you would consider the sources presented in this bug report to be untrustworthy?
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/vqbCmqSXz3Es
@pegabug bought a newly released book by Ryan Cunningham where we have info about the J11A radar… and another source that was deemed by TrickZZter (In 1999, an upgraded version of the J-11, equipped with new N001V/ VE radar flew for the first time and was designated the J-11A. Seven PLAAF units are equipped with this variant
“The only sources that’s actually says about new radar. But we can’t accept report based on 1 secondary source”.) as usable basically said the same thing… In this case it seems like we have two secondary sources that say the same thing, one of them seemingly acknowledged as usable, the other one stating extremely similar, if not identical, claims:
1st source considered as usable:
“In 1999, an upgraded version of the J-11, equipped with new N001V/ VE radar flew for the first time and was designated the J-11A. Seven PLAAF units are equipped with this variant.”
2nd proposed source:
“Reportedly, the J-11A began its flight test programme in December 1999 and entered production by 2002 (if not earlier). By now, Russia had also relented on the radar dispute, supplying the improved N001VE system.”
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On a completely unrelated topic.
But Yeah I don’t see them as a particularly reliable source.
What is the point of a book that is basically based on rumors posted on an internet forum?
I don’t put much stock in a book that doesn’t get even the basic details right.
And why would the guidelines for sources give us the chance of using such sources if there are issues of authored works being “unreliable”?.
I know it is indeed unrelated but i guess this could prove useful for further bug reports about Chinese equipment… considering the secrecy and the issue of unreliable sources you just mentioned then how are we supposed to gather information on advanced and still in use systems?
Well, J-11A is just Chinese produced SU-27SK, and received first upgrade to be able to use R-77, and second update to receive things like MAWS, so the information would be mixed and contradictory