All aspects would push it too 11.3/11.7.
Flight performance also matters.
No one is saying that.
Learn the context of those arguments
Brit tax
Whataboutism
Me when I lie
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I would settle for radar missiles, since the Phantom gets them at 10.3, MiG 21 SMT gets them at 10.3, Mirage IIIs get radars at 10.3, but no, the J-7D is pure rear aspects. Hell, that’s all China is at Rank VIII: rear aspects. The J-8 is rear aspects with the Apsides, but that’s it (and you don’t even get to use the radars until you nearly spaded it anyways).
Yeah, flight performance matters so much when you have multi-hundred flares. If we really want to talk flight performance, we can talk all day about the British and their tax. I mean, when you have AIM 9L spam at a BR where no one can protect themselves, I think that beats out whatever performance issues that may affect it. Plus, let’s not forget that it has AGMs and other payload options that can easily wreck havoc among ground AI and bases, but hey, it can only go 676 km/h :'-(, same with the Su-25, it’s sooooooo terrible having all aspect missiles when the best flares it fights are 16 round rocket pods, it must be so terrible going 962 km/h and fighting jets that have the turning radius of a grid square (looking at you J-32).
It may not be in this thread, but there is another thread that said that since the J-7D has so many flares, it is untouchable.
I know the context, it’s a bunch of c… people trying to nerf minor nations, because God forbid another country defeated their meta. I mean, do I need to bring up that guy who is demanding that other jets go up in BR because his MiG 23 was being bullied?
Yeah, that shouldn’t be the reason. Joke or not, the fact that the Venom is at 8.7 quite literally defeats all arguments against the A-10 and Su-27 from going up in tier. Anything you can say about why the A-10 and Su-25 should stay at 10.3, regarding speed, flight performance, anything besides bias.
We can say the same about the J-7D. It’s all whataboutism.
I was being sarcastic about that, and it should read clearly, especially in the context given.
These radar missiles are basically useless because they are mostly kinematically dodgeable and dont even require chaffing. Unless you keep flying straight, they wouldn’t be problem.
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True, but at least I’d have something for front aspect fighting.
Not how that works, you don’t need to notch CW seekers. Even with the recentish buffs to gen3 non-PD radars, you still only need to dump a certain amount of chaff while not flying in a direct head on to chaff these missiles.
Because attackers get special treatment by gaijin so that they can “perform” in an “air to air” role. Nobody debates this with you because it’s obvious why and it’s been settled 2 years ago. A large % disagree with gaijin on their way of balancing these.
There jets are outliers and should not be constantly brought up in discussions about PUREBRED FIGHTERS.
PL-5Bs are too good to be at 10.7 fighting 9.7-10.7 and on an excellent flight model at that for 10.7.
again, outlier, actually works to DIMINISH your point rather than help it since you have to keep pointing at outliers to defend the obviously undertiered jet.
Minor nation suffering
The F-104 should be a higher BR. I don’t know space space of your ass you pulled out 13.0 though
The only thing that has an impact on BR to gaijin is silver lion income. They have said as such. That does not mean we, the playerbase, should care about that.
It’s far closer to the 21bis than the 21mf. It has a lightened airframe AND a stronger engine.
Try 12.0?
It doesn’t and it does. It’s a complicated issue for the ATTACKERS that should not be compared to FIGHTERS.
Uhh, ground AI in ARB literally does nothing. Neither do bases. It’s literally just SL converters.
Nobody here is saying they should stay that BR…
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Only works against AFK player or braindead gamer, which is same with AIM-9Bs
Ahhh… At least we didn’t see
It isn’t broken because it doesn’t have napalm, and so it can’t bomb.
So it is fine to stay (or need to be 10.3)
claim this time. :/
I just can’t get why J-7D with 4 Magic 1 (I excluded PL-5B for arguing’s sake this time) stays the same 10.7 BR with Mirage IIIE or Jaguar A with 2 Magic 1.
According to SHAR FRS.1 theory, (which has both versions of 10.7 on 2x 9L and 11.0 on 4x 9L)
J-7D can go 11.0 very easily as long as it has double the amount of Magic 1 compared to its French counterparts or A-5C in 10.7
“BUT IT SHOULD NOT FACE F-4S AT ALL!!!”?
Then, do you guys who defend J-7D think that it is completely fine that 9.7BR jets like Hunter F.6 or Jaguar GR.1 see J-7D?
You guy’s theories are just lame and same as those Sabre defenders.
“F-86A can’t be 9.3BR because it can’t fight against F-104A” (While every other jet in 8.3 still suffers against them)
“J-7D can’t be 11.0BR because it can’t fight against F-4S” (While every other jet in 11.0 still suffers against AIM-7F of them.)
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Skill issue
Lots of people also complain about PL5Bs in downtier. I am not denying they’re some of the best rear aspect missiles, but anything would have killed the poor flareless F-4Cs, even Aim-9D.
Unfortunately, it’s a function of BR compression.
But I think flareless jets wold have suffered just as much as with Aim-9G, 9D, just about any 15g+ missiles.
Why I say that, is because the most of the planes that get famously clubbed, like F-4C, F-105 are buses. Launched at 2km it won’t matter if it was a 9D or PL5B. They’re dead either way.
Also why I stopped bombing in it? Well, I unlocked what I want in the Chinese tree, and I’m actually playing (with grinding as a side thing) rather than just grinding.
Ah yes, the excellent “attackers get special treatment” argument, while you ignore the Norwegian F-5 that gets AIM 9Ls at 11.0, the Thai F-5 that gets AIM 9Ls and Pythons at 11.3, MiG 21bis with R-60Ms in Russia, Germany, Italy, and Sweden, and the R-60M and R-23Ts gifted to the 11.3 MiG 23 in Russia and Italy. Obviously there is no reason why it would go to 12.0 if it was given all aspect besides your weird obsession with “if given all aspect, it would go to 12.0” point you constantly make.
To me, the PL-5s are rear aspects, they’re not some holy missile, it’s a rear aspect missile that gets flared off by a single flare. Wowie zowie!
It’s not really an outlier, it’s a MiG 21, no matter how you want to cut it. There are other OP jets at that BR that need attention to, not some MiG 21 with a better missile than an R3S.
Seriously, that is the worst argument of all, it’s the other side of “bias”
The F-104 quip was obviously meant at being an exaggeration. People say that the A-10 is slow, so it needs to be at 10.3, so I reversed it and said the F-104 needs to go up since it is too fast.
Every non-IRCCM missile gets flared off by a single flare.
Even some IRCCM capable all aspect missiles can get flared off by a single flare if you fire it at head-on.
f-a-doodle-doo. :/
At least, I am glad to hear that you finally stopped bombing in J-7D. :/
I think I might pissed off if you defended J-7D by nothing but ‘worse bombing capability compared to MiG-21bis’ in this topic too.
Here is 11.0…
It is quite fair that J-7D has same BR with these jets.
F-104G has x4 AIM-9Js at max but, literally doesn’t turn.
F-4EJ has x4 AIM-9Ps and x4 AIM-7Es but, turns like brick and 7Es aren’t that good.
F-5A(G) and F-5Es are quite annoying for dealing with MiG-21s but, they aren’t that fast. Keep BNZ just like what you guys should do against A6Ms in prop BR.
Kfir Canard is maybe horrible for dealing with J-7s because of its flight performance.
MiG-21bis can be “almost” side grade with J-7D because of its missiles and performances.
MiG-23M/MF is sad frogger because R-23s aren’t that good also, 12 flares.
MiG-27s are also sad because they only has x6 R-60Ms but, still quite fair because of its flight performance.
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That is literally what gaijin does, I don’t agree with it.
What do both of these have in common (F-5, gaijin also has some weird preferential treatment towards the F-5)
ya this is the main jet that breaks the mold but it also would be complete ass without them and R-60Ms aren’t valued nearly as highly as almost any other all aspect due to their large faults that hinder them.
how about that its 11.3 now and giving all aspects would be a massive buff? Why would it stay the same BR? 11.7 also doesn’t make sense when its strictly a better vehicle than the F104sasa which has to be 12.0 for the reason I gave
R-23T and R-24T are a completely different class of missile in how they are used, and also aren’t that good.
Are we talking aout the J-7E here or the J-7D? The J-7E flies nothing like any other MIG-21 in game.
Pl-5s are also the best rear aspect missiles in game
Shar FRS.1 (11.0) gone 11.0 because it has double number of AIM-9L compared to FRS.1 Early (10.7)
So, We can easily think about J-7D to 11.0 because it has double number of Magic 1 compared to A-5C(10.7) or Mirage IIIE(10.7)
isn’t it?
I didn’t include attackers because mostly, average players doesn’t use it as pure fighter.