BTW, I often see people overestimate the MiG-21bis R-60Ms and justify it as being 0.3 BR higher than the J-7D, but it needs to be mentioned that it is actually not that much better.
Yes, they are all-aspect missiles but, maneuverability is not very good because the Fin AoA is literally lower than the R-13M1 and has a much shorter range. “30G” in stats card basically means nothing. Their only advantage is just all-aspect, in some cases equal to or inferior to AIM-9P-4.
If the R-60M had the equivalent performance with the PL-5C, current BR difference could still be justified, but unfortunately this is not the case.
What , bro all you do is basebombing in the 21Bis and the J7D. How can you know that the J7D is bad because it lose all it energy in one turn ? Oh wait you don’t, because you always pick the lamest way to play and refuse to learn anything , forcing every premium jet you got into a multi role jet
Yeah but we got two guy defending the J7D to the death in here and to them the R60M is some kind of godlight IR missile. When the thing is extremely flare hungry
this “flare hungry” argument to describe anything that isn’t 9M, R-73, -Magic 2, or AAM 3 is very funny. You expect a missile that doesn’t have IRCCM to counter your IRCM?
Its not so much that they are flare hungry that lets the R60Ms down but the lack of range, hard to get a good position that you are unspotted to launch.
Where the PL5s shine fast acceleration, good range, and short burn time. Can launch them and turn away so if you do get spotted the target doesnt think you have even launched a missle at them
No ? If you are that desperate to bring up actual top of the line IR Missile just to prove that R60M is good then might as well not. It mean the level of flare resistance that said IR missile have and in R60M case there barely non. The only thing that can be bought up to compare with R60M in the all aspect is the AIM-9L and it is way better than the R60M.
I don’t expect the missile to just straight up ignore the flare when even IRCCM AAM missile can rush to the closest flare the moment they got launched. Don’t twist my word and the narrative
The only thing holding the J-7D back from being a 11.0 is the fact that it is a premium and people who play the thing always pick the worst way possible to play such a great aircraft. And people who argued that no all aspect =/= 11.0 which is actual dogshit reasoning
The thing that holds back j7d is it’s bad airframe mostly. I stomp on them in a gunfight with the mig 21bis.
It’s ultimately multi factors that makes it 10.7 worthy.
That said, the j7d, even if 11.0, will be much better than the kfir canard with only 2x 9G missiles and flares that only strictly works on missiles from the right.
Well the bis is undeniably better in a furball due to more engine power in afterburner and all aspect missiles (when you’re blackout from G force, it matters little whether it is PL 5B or R60M)
Just think of it as some kind of “bad spot” in development. Think of it as AIM-9J to all the AIM-9 series. jackshit in all trade, master literally nothing.
beside this is just plain old smear and word twisting. I said “missile without IRCCM would not counter anti-IR CM”, not “R60M can be compared with R-73”. Again, i’m pointing out how ridiculous you lot who keep saying “Flare resistance” about non-IRCCM missile when all of that share the same value as the good ol 9B, nil.
It’s developed as dogfight missile, so there is that. maybe time travel back to 1963 and give the russian AIM-9L seekerhead and tell them to “make missile that is effective in both close and medium range relative to average IR missile performance” rather than trying to stealth chuck an R-60M like it’s AIM-9G.
Mig-21 variants, including the J-7, are all incredibly good dogfighters (except the F-13). They beat almost everything in the first two turns (yes, even the Mig-23). The one aspect in which the Mig-21 struggles is the two-circle/sustained fights but literally no one takes those. 90% of players will always go for the one circle where you can instantly pull into them. And the few players that know to drag the Mig-21 into a prolonged fight can easily be countered with the crazy acceleration it has and you can disengage and reset the fight.
I’m tired of seeing people who clearly have no clue how to dogfight in the Mig-21 saying that it’s bad in dogfights. Learn energy management, people.
But non IRCCM AAM have a certain amount of not following flare ? Literrally every missile got that , you just bring the bar up to narnia and use that as a justification to “J-7D le bad , R60M good cause All aspect”. No it doesn’t work like that
No , lmao. “Better in a furball”. Lmao , bro you base bombing in mig21bis , what do you know about it ability in a furball ? The only thing it good in a furball is run the f away and sneak missile in. It is not a Jet for furball , it literally bleed all it speed in one turn, it missile at sub 1.5km can be defeated by turning or a single flare
Just that its major flaw in ARB is a lack of range.
Launching missles from angles and ranges your opponent isnt expecting is better to guarentee a hit.