Some Italian vehicles have an unfairly high battle rating compared to similar vehicles (based on their characteristics). I will describe some of them here, but first I will list the vehicles with a battle rating that I think is worth considering: VBC (PT2), VCC-80/30 (also Dardo), OTOMATIC, R3 T106 FA, and AMX Ghibli. Now I will write why I think this way about each vehicle: VBC (PT2) - previously, this vehicle had a battle rating of 9.3, where it was even inferior in terms of armament to the BMP 3, BMD 4, and BMP 2. However, the VBC has now risen even higher in terms of battle rating. The only advantage of this vehicle is its speed, but I believe that this factor is not significant enough to make it superior or equal to the vehicles I have mentioned. VCC-80/30 (or Dardo) are just worse versions of the Bradley, but they have the same rating. Japan has the Type 89, which has worse shells, but that’s where the differences end. However, the Type 89 has a combat rating of 9.0, while the VCC has a rating of 10.0. OTOMATIC is simply a 2S38 with a radar but with a limited number of armor-piercing shells, the quality of this vehicle’s performance in the role of air defense (which it is) is reduced to zero on this battle rating, vehicles with radio fuze shells, such as the M247, show themselves much better due to the combat rating of 9.0. R3 T106 FA - I won’t say much, but such there are two vehicles like this one with two 106mm guns, and they are on a much lower combat rating (6.7): the Japanese Type 60, the new Chinese vehicle from the WZ141-1 combat pass (although it has two 105mm guns, but the difference does not change). The AMX Ghibli is just a dead attack aircraft that was installed on br 11.0, and thus began to meet new types of air defense (as well as new Iris-T, buk, sampt air defenses), while having only 6 guided bombs with a bad hanging container, the same A10 with br 10.7 is much better, the Su-25 it’s much better on br 10.0, F111 is much better on br 10.7, everything is better than AMX killed by the new combat rating 11.0. It seems to be everything, but I want to say that this is my personal opinion as a italian vehicles player. And sorry if you see some mistakes in my words, i was using translator.
Those soviet vehicles are just straight up under BRed. They should be 10.0
Yeah, no reason for it to be any higher than the TT AMX
Not on your list. F104S ASA has no buissness being 12.0. Should be 11.3/11.7
Yes, thank you for adding the F104 ASA, I had completely forgotten about it because I hadn’t played it at all due to its crazy br.
how are they worse?
theyre faster, dont have to wait for missiles to deploy, and are lower profile. imo the dardo is better than the bradley because while sure you have less pen, its enough to go through the side of russian mbts and you have much higher rate of fire
the type 89 also doesnt get tow2a or tow2b and has significantly worse rate of fire, also youre kinda underplaying the worse shells
the dart is also much better than the 2s38
it is very sad that the vbc went up, but the speed definitely is signficant enough for it to eb superior or equal, its kinda a hard counter to the bmps and bmds as it can get to position before them and kill them very easily. the only sad part is that the french VBCI which is extremely similar just a bit bigger and a little slower is still 9.3
the other stuff i tacitly agree with
this doesn’t really matter, at all, even a little
to the russian IFVs? absolutely not.
The other way around, the dardo is just a better bradley, they are absolutely fine at this br.
VCC-80/30 & Dardo are equal BRs to their equivalents across the tech trees.
R3 T106 FA is effectively a 5.3 second reload due to the two guns on a really mobile chassis with >21 degrees per second traverse.
OTOMATIC is vastly superior to 2S38 in the SPAA role, and fires among the best APFSDS rounds.
False equivalence fallacy.
It should have its APFSDS removed and be moved to around 10.3 though.
No other objections.
OTOMATIC players say otherwise:
nah i meant for the br, the russian ifvs should be like 10.0
Definitely not, if anything should be done to OTOMATIC, its internal modules should be detailed and autoloader should be reworked in accordance with real life capabilities. Irl it had a double autoloader, the main one for HE-MOM shells and additional one for anti-tank munitions which had 3 apfsds shells ready to fire, 9 close to a loader in the first-order ammo rack, plus more APFSDS shells could be carried in reverse ammo rack in the front of the hull next to driver. After this more complicated modelling with few steps of ammo and separate logic for AA and AT munitions br can be corrected.
If you want to remove some shell from OTOMATIC do it with SAPOM, which is a naval shell and has never been intended to be used on this system.
PS I also don’t see any need of downgrading OTO just to place it at lower br, it’s not like there are any issues with AA at 10.3 in the Italian TT nowadays.
right and what BR is the t114 again?
Differences
Type 89 has better main round w/ slower firerate.
Both Dardo and VCC-80/30 have the TOW-2/2A/2B. All of these missiles are better than the Type 79 (Faster speed, more penetration (2A is even Tandem), missile launcher has better vertical guidance + speed, IRCCM, more total missiles).
Dardo + VCC-80/30 also get drones w/ thermal sights, making them better scouters. They also have slightly better armour (pretty sure Type 89 can be .50 cal’d) and they run belts, the Type 89 can only fire 34 rounds maximum (w/o refreshing ready rack) along with having worse vertical guidance and slower hori+vert traversal speeds.
As for comparison with the Bradley (M3A3), they have the similar cannons, same missiles but less capacity, better speed, better armour, are smaller. The Bradley has better thermals, IRST tracking and ESS.
Everything else I pretty much agree with though. I just love light vehicles.
BMP-2 and 3 at 10.0.
Seems legit.
7.7, the same BR.
Not sure why you brought it up when it proves my point…
still with this story with Italy you can not compare the statistics of Italy with other nations since the Italian players are always the same with tons of experience compared to other nations that suffer tons of inexperienced players
It’s why I didn’t compare it to other tech trees.
People are using the highly potent APFSDS round to frag tanks.
cause theyre not the same BR? the r3 t106 is 8.0
Oh right, they moved the other to 8.0 a bit ago.
My point is still proven regardless cause two similar vehicles are within 0.3 of each other.
If you get into the nuances of each one then you’ll find out that there are aspects of R3 that give it at least slight advantage over tracked vehicles with 2 106s, or 1 better reload 106.
theres also the new wz141 which is at 6.7, and slow turret traverse is not worth 1.3 difference in BR
Imho the text is fine, but it would make sense to add paragraphs and bullet points. And ofc a seperation between Ground and Air vehicles.
You might consider to add Italian prop fighters to your list of over-BRd aircraft. It is very rare to see to more than one domestic Italian aircraft in Air RB; comprehensible as they need a lot of experience to make them work. From my pov the SM 92 (my favorite IT aircraft) is one of the few aircraft with a reasonable BR.
Have a good one!