Of the four or more you already have?
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The Hungarian air line is entirely copypasted into the regular tree, I mean some of these copypaste planes could be placed in the premium section. Imo all Hungarian stuff should be placed in one line (maybe apart from planes which have connections to already represented Italian planes, like Heja for example), this way planes like Yak-9P, MiG-15bis, MiG-21bis-SAU (or other) could become premium, which the tree severely lacks.
Although I would also like to see more unique stuff, at least modifications not represented in the game like MiG-23UB as well as differences in MiG-29B armament compared to other 29s, but better Romanian stuff as well, because they can bring some unique designs and modifications.
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+1, id like to see the Q more accessible than the N, since it was actually used for combat and not just training.
So like TT/premium or premium/event
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Where else would the Hungarian air line go? The whole point of it was to aid Italian high tier lineups, so of course it was added to the regular tree.
And aircraft like the IL-10, Tu-2S-59, IL-28, and Su-22M3 are in the Italian lines because they are strikers and bombers meant to supplement and fill out the Italian bomber and striker lines. Where else would these go?
Don’t get me wrong, the implementation of the incomplete Hungarian air subtree is not perfect and I wanted a few things done differently, firstly I would have removed the MiG-21bis-SAU, or moved it to be a premium, secondly I would have replaced the IL-10 with the Fw 190 F-8, which I think everyone can agree would be a much nicer addition. Lastly, the Yak-9P could have been moved to be a premium and replaced with the Bf 109 G (6/10/14) which would have also been a much better addition.
Now I don’t agree with adding Romanian stuff too. Italy was doing ok before Hungary, now they are pretty good, with a few more Italian/Hungarian stuff, they can be great, Romanian stuff would just be too much, unnecessary, and there is not really the space for it. But I agree they could have added more unique variants of Soviet aircraft, like the MiG-19PM or the MiG-21PF.
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Honestly, I think the dice have already been cast on the addition of Romanian stuff into the Italian tree, they’ve already got quite a few planes. But that said having looked at your Hungarian Air Sub tree proposal there are a couple of areas where having the extra Romanian aircraft could be beneficial
As for adding the P-39 to Italy, I’ll give it my blessings and a +1
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Opsie, corected it
Better italian copy pastes than foreign right? Also, i am a big promoter of italian domestic designs but you need to agree with me that it’s better to have some more copy pastes than not having anything new.
Remember than a lot of domestic design have either already been suggested or they are about to be suggested (hearing different users, including the ones that I would like to do, there are about 30 more planes to add, and a lot of helis and tanks), how many of them have been accepted?
See the problem is not having more or less copy pastes, it’s about putting effort to add copy pastes AND the domestic design that have been HUGELY suggested…
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Sorry, i don’t remember voting no, but i surely would vote no again. For a very simple reason:
I do not want hungarian vehicles in italy.
As simple as that. People think hungarian sub line is saving italy, wich is not true.
But the main reason why i don’t want them is because by focusing on adding hungarian vehicles Gaijin will forget about the domestic designs that italy had. I find it crazy that you can’t understand how hypocritical your opinion is: you welcome hungary vehicles, even copy pastes and not italian? I understand that you are probably hungarian and want as much hungarian vehicles as you can, but most of the vehicles hungary developed had one prototype flying, and either never entered service or entered service just to get tested and then NOT getting mass produced.
So you would rather see IN ITALY more hungarian copy pastes and prototypes and not italian vehicles that have not only entered service but also used in combat.
Interesting point of view…
(Btw italy is not all copy paste, like you wrote in another reply, i will count the copy pastes for you as soon as i find minute.)
Also i can’t find a single original picture of your WM-23, just X-rays, you do understand that’s not really enough to get it added right?
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Well they’ve already been added since half a year ago, so that ship has sailed.
It is mostly positively received by the WT community, and has further popularised the Italian TT. It has significantly improved Italian lineups, and made the high tier air tree very strong.
Are you actually serious with this argument? This is your main reason? How many times does this argument need to be debunked, Gaijin themselves have repeatedly even said that just because they are working on a subtree for country X doesn’t mean that country X’s indigenous vehicles are not being worked on! Take the AMX and Leopard 40/70 for example, both being added after the recent Hungarian subtree. Gaijin won’t “forget about Italy” just because they model a few Hungarian stuff. Just like they didn’t forget about the UK and Sweden when they modelled South African and Finnish vehicles! This is a terrible and false argument to justify not wanting a subtree that helps out your TT in some places where it can’t get much more.
That’s because you’re simply making up “my opinion” for me and saying things I never said.
I never said I don’t want Italian vehicles in the game! I literally am an Italy main and love playing indigenous Italian vehicles. I also like indigenous Hungarian vehicles, which is why I support their addition to a place they already have (Hungarian subtree line).
I don’t like copy-paste vehicles, neither Italian, nor Hungarian and in all of my subtree suggestions, you’ll see that I clearly made an effort to minimise copy-pastes. However there is a distinction between the Italian copy-paste you are suggesting here and the Hungarian copy-paste that I included in my Hungarian air subtree suggestion: the Hungarian copy-paste jets are necessary to fill out the high ranks of the Hungarian aviation subtree, and on top of that they are useful for Italy, providing them with much more, often better options. For example, the Tu-2S-59, IL-28, and Su-22M3 all provide bomber/striker aircraft to the higher ranks that Italy couldn’t fill in with their own aircraft. The rank VII and VIII Hungarian jet fighters are often better/more options for players, making the high ranks of Italy air much more fun and capable. Therefore, these aircraft are useful and necessary copy-pastes, which is why I can accept them.
However, what you are suggesting is a rank II-III BR 2.7-3.7 fighter, of which the Italians (+Hungarians) have enough indigenous designs. Italy has 9 (of which 2 are not Italian) and Hungary could have 2-3 indigenous fighter designs in this BR range. So this copy-paste is absolutely unnecessary overkill and isn’t needed, and provides nothing new/useful. Besides, this aircraft is already in the game if someone wants to play it. This is why I don’t support this. My opinion is not hypocritical, you just misunderstood it.
When it comes to more useful Italian copy-pastes, like the P-47 that filled an important gap, or many of the rank V-VIII Italian copy-paste jets which were the only available options at their ranks and were important to give Italy more than 8 jets throughout these ranks, I am fine with them because they make sense and are needed. But the approach to add in every single copy-paste vehicle that Italy ever used is just dumb. It’s a waste of time for Gaijin, clutters and dilutes the indigenous designs, and unless the copy-paste vehicle is needed or useful, simply just a wasteful addition. I can’t believe you advocate for this kind of approach, yet don’t want to see indigenous vehicles from other countries just because they aren’t Italian.
Btw plenty of Hungarian aircraft; copy-pastes, Hungarian-built aircraft, and even Hungarian indigenous designs saw mass production and service/combat.
I never said that Italy is all copy-paste. I just pointed out that they have quite a lot.
Well maybe look at the 3 original pictures of the WM-23 that I included in my suggestion and labelled. Not sure what you mean by “X-rays”. And I do understand that this is perfectly enough for it to be added, since it was a fully completed and tested prototype, which passes the requirements easily. 3 original surviving photos are also enough, there isn’t even a surviving photos requirement.
If enough Italian domestic designs have been suggested, then just support those. You don’t need to spam suggest every single copy-paste under the sun, most of which Gaijin is probably aware that Italy used.
False, take a walk in the italian suggestions i guess, because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Italy has actually more than enough indigenous aicrafts to cover all the “empty” spots in the techtree.
The issue i am trying to point out is how adding a whole copy-paste sub-tree instead of actually adding that nation’s vehicles is crazy enough, with no need to put more irons in the fire, suggesting more hungarians vehicles, indigenous or not.
I made this suggestion so that it is on the forum and technically there is proof of players knowing about this and wanting this, like other aircrafts in game.
in one of them you can’t recognize the plane, another one is all snowy and can see the silhouette and the insignia, and the last one looks a lot like a mockup, but i’ll give it to you that maybe a correct 3D model it’s still possible.
That sounds pretty much like saying “it’s all copy-paste”, but fine.
I included all the italian (only italian and no premiums) vehicles and pointed out as copy pastes even the ones that only maintained the original design but was completly modernized.
Planes: 62 total vehicles 12 copy pastes: 19% of the tree
Tanks: 61 total vehicles 14 copy pastes: 22 % of the tree
Helis: 4 total helis and only the AB 205 is based on a foreign deisgn
Navy: 0 copy pastes
So around 20% of air and ground vehicles tree is copy paste (wich is not even that much), but we don’t count the vehicles that italy received and changed, so that now in warthunder you can only play those features in italy, the number drops even more.
Now imagine it again, but with all the suggestions made for Italy: The number drops to near zero, even with just half of them it gets really low, it’s all about actually adding vehicles.
And to finish this off, i would like to make you notice that , first of all the plane it’s not useless, but most importantly this suggestion is meant to wake up Gaijin a little and maybe start adding vehicles that would “fix Italy”, i don’t really care if the P39 gets added to Italy or it doesn’t, but seeing this many suggestions for Italy maybe will ring a bell that yells: WAKE UP IT’S TIME TO START DOING YOUR JOB INSTEAD OF PUTTING A HUNGARIAN INSIGNIA OVER SOVIET PLANES AND SEND IT.
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I think tech trees should get all of there operated vehicles, people will say “Bu-Bu-But Sim!!!” Without realizing that vehicles of the same origins have faced each other before
Also on note of those Hungarian aircraft, only 4-5 of those would actually be worth adding to the game, otherwise fill in Romanian vehicles until they get a tt (like German-Italian Joint tree)
Edit; Thirdly, i think adding Hungary in the way they did was just outright horrendous, it shouldn’t even have been a sub tree, they dont even have enough vehicles to make a sub tree outside of ground (no, Russian jets do not count) i would say otherwise if they actually had domestic cold war jet and tank designs, but they obviously don’t.
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Sure… then point me to the Italian rank V jet bomber… or maybe the high rank IV Italian bomber… or maybe the rank VII strike aircraft that isn’t the AMX, or maybe the plethora of rank VII+ 10.0+ aircraft that Italy doesn’t seem to have. Or the dozens of not yet added WW2 Italian tank designs, which also don’t seem to exist because Gaijin filled it out with German/British/American copy-pastes and “Pizza trucks” (as the community likes to call the unarmoured gun trucks). Then I also have to ask, if Italy has enough to cover every empty gap in the TT, then why after so many years have Gaijin not filled those gaps and looked for alternative solutions instead, almost as if they don’t have the right vehicles to fill those gaps (e.g. look at the controversial Leopard 40/70 at a super low BR that was needed to fill out Italian mid tier AA, yet didn’t fit in well).
Firstly, only the air subtree is purely copy-paste (so far, it is still incomplete). Secondly, how tf does that mean that I shouldn’t suggest indigenous Hungarian vehicles???
Not my fault that better photos didn’t survive the war. But you were wrong to say that not a single original photo of it existed. Also we know perfectly well how it looked, considering 3D models for it have already been made.
No it doesn’t, I never said “all” or “most” or anything like that.
Planes: 13/62 copy-pastes; 20.97% (21%)
Tanks: 14/61 copy-pastes; 22.95% (23%)
Not exactly relevant, and there are barely any anyways.
Well duh, there aren’t really copy-pastes in naval in general.
More like 22%, which is nearly a quarter of the whole Italian tree… that is quite a lot… compare this to the Japanese air tree which has 7/86 copy-pastes (8%) and for ground 8/56 (14%), so an average of around 10%, which is less than half the copy-paste of Italy. The UK has 4/67 (6%) copy-pastes for ground and 2/98 (2%) copy-pastes for air, with an average of about 4%. Italy’s 22% is a lot compared to this. I think only China and Israel have a higher proportion of copy-pastes… and they have a reputation for being copy-paste trees.
It is. What is so useful about it that the dozens of rank II-III prop fighters can’t do?
Not gonna lie, but tons of people from several countries spam the suggestions thinking that quantity is better than quality, but that’s not going to make Gaijin suddenly notice anything and start working on indigenous Italian designs, so this isn’t some master strategy.
Well the vast majority of the community disagrees with you.
Ok, what are we supposed to do about the fact you hate Hungarian vehicles and you don’t think they are “worth adding”, even though there are 10-11 indigenous Hungarian vehicles you still don’t want half of these? Or any of the useful copy-pastes, yet you want every single Italian operated vehicle, even useless copy-pastes???
Then I can’t believe you would say you don’t want indigenous Hungarian aircraft, but you would want Romanian aircraft instead, one more non-Italian nation with a similar amount of indigenous and copy-paste vehicles as Hungary! Imo, only 4-5 Romanian aircraft are worth adding, so that would be a stupid addition!
And did you genuinely just suggest that Romania would eventually get a standalone TT, in the same comment that you think Hungary shouldn’t have even been a subtree!? You are crazy, you do realise Romania could never be a standalone TT and even as a subtree, they lost out to Hungary!
Well obviously, nobody likes being given 10% of the original indigenous vehicles that a country could get, and then being flooded with copy-paste fillers.
Yep, you are crazy. Finland’s copy-paste subtree is fine, Romania can apparently become an independent TT lol, Italy should get every copy-paste they ever had, but Hungary, with arguably more indigenous vehicles than both Finland and Romania shouldn’t even get a subtree. Wow, try convincing me you have nothing against Hungarian vehicles.
If they have enough vehicles for a ground subtree, then they should get a subtree. How comes you aren’t saying South Africa shouldn’t be a subtree?
Since when was an air subtree about the jets? Also, you think the Finnish air subtree is fine? Hungary has more indigenous aircraft than the Finnish air subtree. Oh, and at that rate, Romania wouldn’t have enough ground vehicles for a subtree (yet alone a standalone TT), so by your logic Romania shouldn’t be a subtree either because it doesn’t have the perfect amount of both indigenous ground and air vehicles.
And finally, Hungary does have a few domestic cold war ground vehicle designs, so please only talk about a subject if you know what you’re on about. Never have I read such a load of rubbish.
Putting words in my Mouth
The region surrounding Romania could be its own tech tree with the vehicles it has
Also never said this, not even part of this conversation
South Africa actually has a full sub tree for ground, there was no reason for a hungarian sub tree, Italy didn’t need a subtree thay consists of low effort soviet planes.
Just because something has a ground subtree does not induce the need for an air subtree, Italy and Britain could’ve gone without one
I will agree with this. This plane doesn’t bring anything interesting to the Italian tree. I would much rather prefer the Fiat G.55 based trainers.
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Dude you don’t need to write a essay every time you respond to someone. Please keep it short
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Nah it’s not really about spamming so that maybe Gaijin will notice Italy, i wrote it down pretty badly, i mean that if there are a lot of high quality suggestions, Gaijin will not only understand that people care about getting something nice for Italy, but it will also have a huge pool to choose from.
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Yeah, you’re right… I write way too much, but points take a lot of explanation and support to be useful, but I guess I could just leave it at “No, I disagree.”.
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