This is part of why CR2 and Ariete and maybe Leclerc will always be more niche, Abrams and Leopards were built to be excellent long range tanks, on par or better than CR2, Ariete and Leclerc, but they were also made with the possibility of things not going as planned so both are also built to be effective in close range engagements against T tanks. Leopard has this in-game, and Abrams is a few fixes from this capability
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What worse Abrams? most of them are on Leopard 2A5/PSO and A6 level and there are more of them than German the only equivalents they don’t have is 2A7V level
Sweden yeah, their MBTs are total beast but apart from that nothing much to write about because apart from MBT aspect they are pretty on mid-level.
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Isnt the cr2 more accurate than them all at longer ranges? And far more armoured
BUT lacks in mobility severely and the effectiveness of the rounds bar hesh
All western mbts were built in mind of the cold war, under the influence of going against T series tanks.
Eh not really, CR2 isn’t more accurate since everything is fin stabilized anyways
And it’s armor is not that good compared to Abrams and Leopards
It literally bet them in the latest competition.
And its armour is better than the abrams and leopards, maybe not by much now adays but the cr2 is from the 90s.
Its major issue has been and will.be its.slower speed and weight.
It is more accurate as well due to the hydrogas suspension.
No pretty much all western MBTs can shoot tanks from 5KM aways with their modern FCS Challenger just lucky to been able to encounter such range once.
Against HEAT Tandem and IED? definitely they made for fight war on terror in mind, but I don’t think they do well against tanks since they still using rifle gun.
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U mean on the move? Yes, CR2 would be better due to it’s more expensive and complex suspension, that cannot even be adjusted like others of its kind, and it’s overall slower speed making it easier to stabilize.
Abrams is from 70’s your point is kind of irrelevant
I mean overall not the one specific tank kill at 5km which btw was a cr1
They were made with the coldwar in mind still as design began before the berlin wall came down then was put on hold by the british government during the gulf war, so vickers carried on their own researching and developing the tank.
It was designed to go up against T series tanks.
Its designed for all of it, lence so ieds and insurgency.
I suggest watching the rank museums tank chat on it
However the rifled barrel isnt the issue now its the 3 part ammo which they use for hesh, which is why they have the rifled barrel.
If they used a smooth bore or one piece ammo for the dart it would be gine for tank on tank
(it is now in 2024 falling short in damage compared to contemporary darts hence the upgrade to cr3)
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I was more talking about stuff like gun depression or reverse speed that won’t even let you play from certain positions and will lock you in a certain playstyle.
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They both have pros and cons
Its what he means by asymmetrical, which is actually makes things interesting
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I’m talking from a skill floor perspective.
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Yeah, it was but unlike Leopard they don’t upgrade for that role anymore instead heading toward war on terror no surprise on it really because Leopard is supposed to be main force defending European ground against case of Russian invasion Challenger 2 already fighting in middle east plus Brits happen to have large stockpile of HESH so they keep rifled and been using it in middle east since then.
Well average WT high tier maps already lock all of the tanks playstyle except go fight in the CQC anyways the playstyle that only Uparmored Leopard and T-tanks are the only two that capable fighting each other so i guess you can throw all gun depression and reverse stuff since the game embraces who have better armor wins.
I mean as of last year the cr3 has been signed.off even now the prototypes are there.
Im.blissfully aware that the cr2s purposed changed. Britain was in Afghanistan for over a decade naturally the upgrades would go that direction.
The armour protection has been praised by the Ukrainians using it in the war its.armour has never been in question.
Source for that? As when the cr2 was initially ordered it was over 1000 tanks ordered, as is mentioned per the tank chat from the tank museum, when the berlin wall came down ans the soviet union fell they dialed it back, as did germany.
Germanies leopard 2s were an export success, nothing to do with going to war with the soviet union as a main defender of europe. More as a defender for each nation.
That doesnt change the fact the cr2 is now especially ammo wise long in the tooth im.not debating that.
And never will.
But the cr2 in game under performs massively for comparison ti irl
Not true , the ztz99s and mbt2000 arent as armoured as either tbe leopard 2s or t seried and i beat both.
Positioning, attention and patience win games.
Not just armour
On most maps you’ll still have terrain that you need to have gun depression for and even relatively small bumps will make your gun face the sun, which is highly annoying and can get you killed.
Reverse speed is also useful in all playstyles.
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ZTZ99 also gets broken literally every major patch somehow, the armor still isn’t what its supposed to be.
MBT-2000 has underperforming armor but its really mobile so that makes up for it at 11.0, otherwise itd be 11.3 or potentially even 11.7
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So… hull ammo is a thing. In the Leo’s but Russia figured out removing the extra ammo outside of the auto loader caused tanks to eat far far more rounds.
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I do better in tbe 99 II and III i genuinely believe all 3 should be 11.3 , mbt2000 too.
Side note genuinely loving tbe ztz 99s.right now
Can’t Abrams do more than 60mph without governor which has happened before. Apparently during 80’s Abram crews took them up to or past 70mph