Is US top tier too weak

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
1849

BVM was never as strong as 2A7s are today, as it had a lot of flaws (even crippling ones) that you have to work around. As far as I’m concerned, 2A7s biggest flaw is what, NATO hump ?

@Panther2995
Being better than shitty ones doesn’t necessarily make it good.
As I said, HMD is aggravatingly inconsistent, locking things that it should never be able to lock. I’ve had enemies dead center of my reticle coming right at me from 7-8kms away, but it somehow locked someone else that wasn’t even in the reticle. Actual monitor spitting moment.

TWS is also of no use as BVR in that crapbox is a suicide mission.

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1850

Some people think balance is achieved only when RU stuff is sub-par in every category, otherwise it’s biased and whatnot.

1851

And it will never be but at least BVM against Uparmored Leopard are fairer game than BVM against other western tanks in average close combat of WT

too bad that what Leopard 2 are the more they upgrade the less flaw they become plus in the game Leopard 2 are the cripple version of it compared to real life
which mean there is nothing left of it to be nerf when it already worse version of itself.

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1852

I was going to run a series of tests myself playing both the 2a7vs (German and Swedish variants) and in the Abrams (SEP and M1a2 base).

In addition to some hanger protection analysis screenies I’d be recording

1: shots on Abrams and Leopard 2a7v with the opposite respective tank, frontally and from other angles since side and rear shots are hardly uncommon, this would help test the survivability statement on both tanks. 50±10 reps each (probably won’t need many reps to conclude rear shots are lethal to both).

2: Custom battles to put my own mobility claims to the test, to simulate which tank can reach an advantageous position fastest I would be racing each tank to a cap point on a specific map from the same precise starting location.

Let me know if you have anything else you’d like to add to the methodology for my tests.

The reason why I’m controlling for players by making it all come from myself, is that I wish to control for all variables that aren’t the tanks themselves, because I believe American players on average are just worse than Swedish, German, and Italian players at top tiers, especially Sweden and Italy. And I assume you’d at least mostly agree

3 Likes
1853

sounds like decent enough experiment for it.

1854

You can yap anything you want about standardized tests and stuff, but showing your animosity at first towards a playergroup only leads me to believe that you’ll eventually tweak anything you may see as a proper disadvantage of the M1 series to deny its existence.

Renzo may agree to your terms, but as a foreigner to the conversation, I think you’ll find a way to keep your claims with the sense of confidence over basically cherrypicked evidence.

1855

Actually SMT’s radar is very good if you compare to other top tiers, it has quite good scanning speed, really good tracking angles and multiple mode options.

Its far from bein average or trash.

That problem occurs on almost anything.

I have every single top tier jet, including EFT and Rafale and they also do that kind of things from time to time, especially EFT.

I disagree, that TWS is insanely good and gives you very good situational awareness against your enemies, even if you dont do BVR.

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1856

Just so you are aware my position is that the Abrams is an equal to the Leopard 2a7v.

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1857

Cool joke. And so is the Ariete AMV.

4 Likes
1858

Care to add anything to the discussion?

For the most part we’ve been very civil in this discourse so far. Which is actually quite rare in top tier tank discussion

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1859

With someone as neglectful to not concede a single point as you? Surely not.

Being disingenuous is not a civil behavior, disguise it as such if you like, if that is your belief.

1860

I already conceded the Leopard 2a7v wins on the armor front. By how much is what I’m contesting.

1861

https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/289497498880860196?public_key=UOWlwLc8M1wOUKRPSEy9

Here is replay 1 using a 2a7v variant (strv 122b) let me know if it doesn’t work, as for the weirdness in my gameplay, well;
image

This isn’t indicative of all results of course, this is just me testing to make sure this works in the first place.

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1862

I think the t90m is very survivable, it’s just not STRV or 2a7 survivable

The rest I absolutely agree with.

1863

I’m actually more worried seeing that 60 FPS cap.

1864

My PC is not a NASA machine, that’s for certain.

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1865

Nothing wrong with it though, it’s more than playable at 60fps lol

1866

Good to know.

I’m glad it’s not just 29SMT issue as it’s honestly really annoying.

Awareness in that situation goes both ways sadly. If I’m flanking and I ping flanking EFT, he (probably) gets M29 RWR ping and invites himself to a free dinner.

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1867

I think that’s a terrible position to hold, but you’re entitled to it obviously.

As someone else sort of said, it’s almost akin to comparing an ariete to an Abrams. It’s just outclassed in most ways.

1868

Just to let you by all definition of the word you are being disingenious.

He has conceded points, specifically armour.

Mobility hes came up with a control test to show how both tanks compare.

Which is quite reasonable as far as tests go.

Second of all, hes being incredibly civil discussing, however you are not.

Abrams is on par with the 2a5 and A6, its firepower overall is far superior due to the fire rate and second best round and that includes its superior to the 2a7

Mobility is up for debate but i believe it is the abrams that wins that.

Armour 2a7 wins, abrams turret is superior though the hull is not.

The tanks ,leopard 2a7, 2a7HU and the strv 122 all should be a step above the rest.
While the abrams is not on par completely with the 2a7 it sure as hell isnt far behind it.