Is US top tier too weak

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
1498

The only selling point of the tanks.

Theyre reload? Sub par 7.1 seconds or 6.5

The round ? Sub par, measly 335 pen at 60 degrees and 580 at flat

The reverse / mobility ? Subpar (yes bvm is slightly more but 11kmph reverse still isnt all that)

The armour ? Decent, huge weak spots.

The survivability? Some of the worst in game due to crew layout and ammo carousel.

Abrams alone

Reload ? 5 seconds

Round? Second best in game with closer to 400 angled pen. (364) and a flat pen of 629

Mobility Abrams is considered one of the best in game.

Armour? Worse than T series but the turret is still amazingly strong and overall abrams armour statistically is better than more than half the.mbts in game.

Survivability? Average due to ammo being out of the hull, crew spacing (does need a spall liner and its fixes for the spalling etc.)

On top of all this today the ADATS just got yet another buff, its missiles.now pull 42G of force. Thats 10 more than pantsir and only 8 lower than the VT1.

america does not suffer, is this well written enough for them?

Hstvl is now the best top tier Light and now theres the premium.

Spaa is buffed more.

Has the best CAS/CAP combination due to the F15E being able to carry so much, and maintain a dominating presence, not to mention the 16C which counts as a fighter so can spawn two fantastic duel performance platforms rather than one.

2 Likes
1499

They are literally built to hold W and hope enemies will bounce on their armor. In non-armor areas they’re clearly lagging behind.

It seems to me that they think US is suffering if they aren’t hands down the best, as anything else in unacceptable in their eyes.

Pantsir is like the best tool RU has to deal with enemy CAS/CAP, especially from US/Germany.
Their CAP capabilities are dog shit with worse FMs and missiles at the same time.

2 Likes
1500

Couldnt of said it better.

On the subject of cas/cap, he brought up US helis as if theyre bad, and used the mention of pantsir vs hellfires to justify saying US helis are bad, now they arent the best, but every single helicopter in game suffers against SPAA in general and especially pantsir.

The ka50/52 are no exceptions and unlike 2 maybe 3 years ago they are no where near what they used to be.

As you said about the russian CAP it is severely lacking compared to most if not all other nations. A su27SM will get slapped down far faster than a, EF2000, rafale, gripen, F16, f15 and the mirages.

In the cas area, the su34 may be able to slam off 6 KH38s but an F15E can slam of 6 mavs, and 4 amraams is it? Realistically thr f15 will down the su34 before it even has to worry about it dropping its payload.

And the list goes on. But here we are, bias apologists, or when he was informed catagorically thats not what the word means, now creating strawmen.

The US ground tree is average , the air tree has been dominant since the bloody F4E over all.
And naval i cannot speak on at all

Edit as it said 16 mavs not 6

Edit another fun fact, playing china last night at 11.0 /12.0 , had 7 games against the US , both with russia and sweden in my team in 3 of said games, and 4 matches with germany, italy etc, guess what ghe 7 games against the US, 6 of them were losses.

The abrams absolutely dogged on most the team due to them actually spawning more than once, also the cas was palpable.

The game needs decompression and genuine issues fixed.

We dont need one nation buffed while others fall behind, however we do need the vehicles brought closer to what the good and reliable sources say…

1 Like
1501

the coping is unreal

1502

dont get me wrong, i agree with you in 90%

but ADATS still bad, you can give it 100g missile it will still be bad. radar is the ADATS problem, you cant shot down if you cant find the enemy in first place (u cant even lock in 3rd person view)

5 Likes
1503

I don’t think that’s the case, as if they have solid cover to hide behind they can become virtually unkillable. Especially those helicopters with FnF munitions that pop out for 2-3 seconds, fire and go back to hiding. They also have MAWs so they’ll always have a couple of seconds to react.

Their ground TT is decent, far from being the worst or suffering.
Their air TT is great and in that regard they have nothing to moan about.

From all of these threads popping out, some might think US is literally the worst nation to play.

2 Likes
1504

All trees need a newer spaa to compete with pantsir levels, but the adats is not a bad spaa, im not saying its the best, its just average, decent.

At least the american one has the gun as well.

That is true, but for example vihkr arent fire and forget yet every one says the ka52 is busted.
Ive tried my best with helis and just cant use them at top tier ( definitely a me issue) but id say most of them are susceptible to spaa fire compared to the fixed wings

Funnily enough seen a guy saying that last night, like brother your stomping us, as the US, how is it bad ? , russia, china and sweden i think it was getting slapped down by US and germany.

2 Likes
1505

The adats buff is irrelevant, its engagement envelope is at best 8km is average situation. That’s legit best case unless an idiot is flying straight and only straight, and that’s if he decides to fly into the AO he could dump his ATGMS outside of the engagement range of even the pantsir.

Nothing has been done to work on the tracking, locking and etc. This is a welcomed change for most, to mimic what I assume is more realistic performance, but more maneuverability within 8km, roughly helps beat only the people that come flying over the the battle space instead of striking from the outside.

The rest is fine.

3 Likes
1506

Since this discussion has moved from whether or not the US top tier lineup is weak (it definitively isn’t, I’d even hear arguments for it being the best), to a discussion on the ADATS, I would like to point out that the US has access to something a lot better for dealing with enemy aircraft, AMRAAMs.

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1507

Because everyone is parroting same old things from years ago when FnF helicopters weren’t so widespread. Kamovs are one of the easier ones to counter with AAs.

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1508

Okay, so then stop complaining about f15 dominance if you’re gonna move goal posts. Since everyone and their mother constantly complains about US air.

CAS is great, planes suck. Russian tanks are good, SPAA is great(comparatively) so their planes can suck and it’s balanced.

It takes getting enough SP to get in those planes to deal with CAS that is a bit harder when your team fold around you. While 90sp gets you in a vehicle which can track and destroy ATGMs, deal with CAS(the best of everyone’s by far), and gun vehicles.

If your solution to a lagging aspect of US is “we’ll hop in your good planes” then everyone should stop complaining about US planes.

Unless, there can be nuanced discussions.

1 Like
1509

I never mentioned F-15 dominance in this thread iirc, you might be replying to the wrong guy. But if we’re talking about the Eagles, the F-15C is ever so slightly underperforming in the FM department and the F-15E still need tweaking in the form of moderate nerfs regarding PW ratio.

But yes, if people are complaining about US lacking anti-air in top tier when there is an exceptionally potent option in the air tree that solves their issues, then they should just grind air.

1 Like
1510

Tbh every nation need better SPAA since forever. Cause the rate of better CAS being added is way way way way way way higher than the stuff ground get to counter those thing and the situation is even worse the lower you go

1 Like
1511

I’m conflating your point with the umpteen posts about US AIR on the forum, my bad.

I agree with you, the best thing to do is hands down get in your f16 or better yet f15c/e. Except then everyone will talk about the utter dominance of it. Damned if you do, damned if you do t.

Though now it seems like the British/german EF is the best one if I’m not mistaken, because it carries the same amount of AMRAAMs as f16, but 4 more IR missiles on an incredible FM(from what I understand).

That said, it doesn’t fix the SP cost disparity, especially if you’re getting trounced every game as a U.S. player. Would be hard to stop the spanking when the SP costs holding back your ability to deal with CAS is locked behind a performance level you can’t achieve in U.S. ground from your teammates being ass.

Which is why in the end, it’s still a problem. They should have a limited CAP loadout option which drops spawn cost down a lot. That would fix a lot for a lot of nations.

2 Likes
1512

I would agree, but since spaa is so low cost to spawn points wise it makes sense why they aren’t great, I’d personally tweak the physics changes they did to spaa to make the missiles more repsonsive and reliable, maybe juice the radars we have a bit, be a bit more generous with max range calculations, and then make their sp cost equal to that of a light tank roughly.

At least as far as radar missile spaa goes I think that would be reasonable.

1513

The FM is incredible for 1v1 dogfighting in some scenarios, because of this people tend to say the deltas have the “best” fm when there’s a lot more to it, energy retention matters a whole lot more than UFO pulls bleeding all your speed in real matches if that makes sense, I’d reccomend Seeker Head’s recent EF2000 video as he can articulate it better than I can.

1 Like
1514

I would prefer CAS being nerfed in cost and removal of scouting reduce cost on air stuff in general. Just turn the assist on scout kill into more SL and RP

1515

Unpopular opinion, but CAS is already 5 times as expensive or more than an MBT with optimal loads, so that’s already fine imo, it’s just that teams suck at countering them with CAP and radar missile spaa got screwed over by the missile physics changes they did a while back.

1 Like
1516

Yes i acknowledged that, however it still is a buff to the vehicle while other trees literally have nothing at all.

As i said all trees need an spaa that.can compete in range with pantsir, becuase now, within decent range, the adats missile and the VT1 are far better.

However neither have the range of the pantsir, from a cas standpoint its missiles arent very difficult to defeat either btw its just due to the long range pressure is applied before even getting near the battlefield, its not destined to take out a fix wing unless they fly like a brain is missing.

But i do agree and at no point will say otherwise it is in a league of its own right now.

1517

It was also a lower BR absolute dogging on tanks that couldnt fight back.