The most interesting thing to me was, that the thrust vectoring is not an advantage in a fight. It´s more a disadvantage. It makes the Raptor a slow and easy target… I think that is the same with all thrust vector fighters…
It´s like you have to pull the parking brake to go around a corner… Looks good, but makes you slow.
just not how it works my dude
typhoon isnt a vietnam era mig or phantom
typhoon can see. has a whole environment. defensive systems. you think a 1997 jet with no upgrades to it can really outmatch a modern jet with advanced avionics and radar and defense systems such as MAWS, DASS etc?
heck even the claimed radar band figures of the 57 would give the raptor a hard time in bvr especially since stealth is such narrow spectrum effective
Radar on F-22 built for LPI, very hard to detect and pinpoint by rwr
I’m sorry but this is the biggest EF cope I’ve read so far, humble yourself.
The F-22 can also see, and you’re acting if only the EF would get backed up by AWACS. Even if both sides has it, the EF is getting detected much further away than the F-22. And it’s not just about being detected. Russian low-frequenzy radars can detect stealth fighters from hundreds of km away, but they can’t do anything with that information other than saying that there’s something, somewhere flying in some direction in the sky. Even if the F-22 were to be detected, the stealth properties are going to make it A LOT harder for missiles to aquire an actual firing solution to it. Detection is only the first part in managing to shoot something down.
The F-22 can jam radars with it’s own and has an advanced RWR that can use the signals it detects to accurately track and launch at the source of the emitions.
It has gotten continous upgrades ever since they entered service. I get that you want to fanboy over your favourite jet, but to ignore all the upgrades the F-22 has gotten just to chest-thump your personal favourite is comical at best.
Wow, such advanced systems which date back decades, which also all happen to exist on the F-22. I’m very impressed.
Like I get that you like your favourite jet and want it to be the ultra-death machine that you believe it is, but for you to ignore everything about the F-22 except for stealth to make your jet seem superior is quite frankly something which needs to be studied.
At least the russians read up on the F-22 and present what it can do, even though they try to downplay it as much as possible whilst trying to present the SU-57 in as good of a light as possible. You’re just making shit up so it better suits your feelings.
I’m no F-22 fan myself, but jesus christ you need to get pulled back down to earth. Humble yourself.
The RAM maybe heavy. But by how much?.
Seriously?
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@Temeraire @RycotSS Hey, let’s avoid direct discussion of current world conflicts, and any other political topics. Further behavior like this could lead to a temporary ban on the publication of threads and posts.
Starts off with ad hominem. Credibility ++ right?
Two can play at that game.
It’s almost funny considering you got your facts wrong
IDK why you think it is “bro”, I don’t want the Eurofighter to have its full IRL capabilities just yet.
Damn, coming off strong aren’t you? I can even smell the sheer disdain lmao.
This is more like cope. Thanks for the example. And yes, I am aware both sides would have AWACS in a BVR confrontation between EFT and F-22. But operationally the F-22 has been known to operate without one due to the AWACS basically telling the enemy where it is and becoming the priority target for stuff like the long range hypersonic R-37s.
lol, ANY low frequency radar can pick up stealth aircraft. Dont gotta be russian. Modern 3D AESA ground based radars are having an easier time detecting stealth aircraft with each new upcycle.
And the stealth on any aircraft only works against certain frequency bands. Outside of that, it sticks out.
They give you pretty accurate results lol WDYM. Early warning radars and the likes can pretty much act like normal radars except they are kinda limited to certain scan zones of the sky and cant lock a target. Data from them still can be used for DL based launches. Albeit I’m not sure if a DL launch can be made with just a low frequency data point.
Yeah… locking kinda stopped being necessary with ARH and TWS and DL.
Fixed it
Yes and yes, IK
Oh gee, and give up the only advantage other than TVC that it has over the EFT?
Jamming gives out your presence like a torch in a dark cave. and btw, all modern jets have jamming. The EFT has a comparable, if not better EW suite to the raptor.
LMAO the glazing is strong with this one.
RWR cannot be used to track targets nor launch at them. The mighty eff-toonty too doesn’t have that capability. No aircraft in the world does. At most you can use the RWR to aim in the direction of the emitter and ‘mad dog’ an ARH at the guy using INS (if you don’t have him on radar). so yeah get your facts right. RWR is passive and cannot be targeted with.
F-22 simply doesn’t have that level of sensor fusion. you might have confused this feature with the F-35 which uses Radar, RWR, IRST, TGP, DL and its seethru tech to create its own 3D map around itself.
EFT also has this but to a less advanced extent and without IRST (in case of the German one) and the seethru tech. That’s why EFT can launch at targets behind itself while the F-22 cannot. Its an avionics issue.
Obviously it has lol, but I’m not counting 120D and 9X integrations or IFF upgrades because they are not really upgrading its detection or sensor fusion capabilities are they?
Link 16 was a good upgrade though ngl but was only installed in 2021.
Fact is the USAF has been having difficulties with upgrading due to the old tech holding back the new one. The shift from programming languages (Ada → C/C++) at the advent of the Raptor program meant that a lot of things were not ironed out initially and the raptor end up more restricted even despite the efforts to keep it upgradable throughout its 35 or so blocks.
IDK where you pulled this out of because the EFT aint my fav. Heck i’m not even gonna get it probably. I personally have a thing for the Su-22M4. So yeah better not try to stain a guy u dont know.
I wasn’t raised among baboons, so you’ll have to forgive me as I’m not familiar with such… social traditions.
DASS is EFT specific. And I’ve never ever heard of the F-22 having MAWS. I’m sure you will have a source to back it up though. You’ve never lied to me before.
Already addressed, I don’t love the EFT
Oh i know it is one of the best fighter jets in the world. But when I see a guy spreading lies like how it can fire missiles at RWR targets I had to correct him. I am well aware of the F-22s capabilities, and guess what? So is the USAF. That’s why they went ahead with the F-35 and now the NGAD. It’s an old bird. Stop putting so much expectations on it.
If I had feelings any involved in this ‘skirmish’, you might have been half right. Because I still aint making ‘shi’ up.
Could’ve fooled me with the glazing
Oh and btw, its kinda hypocritical telling someone to humble themself when the first image that comes to mind after reading ur comment is
the F-22 rwr really good at pinpoint precise direction but idk about ranging. it MIGHT be able to use some form of triangulation to do this, but to questionable accuracy probably. What it for sure can do, however, is use the RWR to cue a very powerful narrow beam from its radar to acquire good targeting data at ranges farther than the standard search range. The F-22 has a lot of sensor fusion too, not on F-35 level ofc but still quite a bit.
idk about launching behind itself, it can do HOBS LOAL but to that level, not sure
and as for DASS, the AN/ALR-94 (RWR/EW/ECM stuff) and AN/AAR-56 (MAWS) on the F-22 arent a DASS by classification but they are a DASS in capabilties if you get what i mean
even with the russian SPO-15, it bases range on signal strength. i recall the SPO-15 showing full strength even when an F-35 or something was very far away because of how strong the F-35s radar is.
hence ranging is a no go. even PIRATE on the EFT cannot range accurately since it has no laser range finder (IRL). ive heard the F-2 does though and thats why it can guide AMRAAMs with the IRST
agreed, but again, LOAL behind itself or especially with IR missiles outside of seeker range are iffy at best.
This is interesting. I’ve never heard about this before. Certainly piqued my interested
Yep. Its what make it one of the best Fighter jets even so many decades after it was made
Another win in the bag for SPECTRA lmao
AAR-56 is an IR MAWS on the F-22. Wiki says its also UV but no source on that.
I wonder if it knows to distinguish sun? I’d imagine it’s more than possible to do that by using navigation systems and ofc, a preprogrammed knowledge of what the sun IR signature is
thats the rafales pseudo-stealth thing no?
its honestly incredible
i saw a reddit post which showed the camera and the video feed from it. i think it is UV,
imma link the videos here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVrdQhYQI1M ← tested on helicopter
SPECTRA is mind boggling already based on what we do know about it. The sekret dokument stuff is likely even crazier.
I recommend checking out the section about it in the Rafale thread if you haven’t already.
It’s really just a typical DASS. It has EW (the hyped part), RWR, MAWS, LWR (tbh the more unique part about it), and ECM. It is a very good one though
It’s a good system but not sure if it can match the power output of the AN/APG-77 for EW purposes
Then it’s probably both since every other thing mentioning it says it’s an IR system
Yes, just think about it. And watch the Video. His explanation is very good.
So yes… seriously…
Even the Raptor pilots try to avoid using thrust vectoring in a close combat situation, coz it makes them a sitting duck…