Winrate is actually more dependant on the team.
Toptier premnium, Pack or GE, shoudnt be able to get for new players. New Players will be forced to grind the techtree using reverve viacles
While team does have a large bearing on winrate, you can influence it, even by playing solo. By positioning yourself properly, you can enable even mediocore team to do well.
Yea but it then hardly is indicative of the players skill themselves… It’s a team based ‘win’.
Hell, even the team can lose it for you by letting the one cap fall and not even try and get it back…
well, no. i repeat, you can influence it reliably.
My Sherman (Hell) sits at 67.8% winrate over 413 battles. My Scimitar sits at 68.9% winrate over 135 games.
Do you want to suggest that I merely got lucky all those games?
thats influencing the game through your action, albeit negatively instead of positively.
No, but you can’t take all that credit for yourself as the TEAM is who won it… It’s not just you that did that.
Are you trying to say that they are the reason you lost? But yet you’re saying that you win the matches… You can’t pick and choose here…
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Your ‘influence’ is arbitrary compared to the team overall, hence that KDR is overly fixated on as a marker for genuine player skill.
I think you’re only commenting in here because it’s me who’s making the statement, so yea, leave your lame insulting labels at the door.
I know for a fact that the TEAM has a greater effect on your winrate than it being a marker of genuine skill.
You can influence it, sure, but you can also game it in the same sense…
You can choose not to spawn that precious vehicle that you hold a high winrate in, if you’re not going to win, thus it’s not an accurate gauge of your skill, more your choice.
You can also only run it with certain BRs so you can again manipulate the stats.
Stats aren’t the be-all-end-all in this.
Is that English enough for you, or are you going to keep at it because you really do seem to be fixated on telling me that I’m wrong, but you can’t take on board the other reasons… Seems, odd.
I usually look at it from this perspective. Suppose you have 60% WR in a vehicle over thousands of matches. That means that, in that BR range when you’re playing it, “teams that have you will have a 60% chance of winning”.
I find this a helpful perspective because it is impossible to apportion credit or blame to many individual micro-decisions that take place in a match where 32 people are doing stuff all the time – but the statistics also reflect the hypothetical player’s positive impact on matches.
Usually if you look at a combo of (last month) average position in the team, WR and KDR you will get an aggregate picture of whether the player is, on average, a positive influence, neutral, or bad.
It’s also entirely possible that a very good player will have a brain fart match and not accomplish anything, but beyond the individual match, on average you know what to expect.
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Lol no it is not, otherwise it wouldnt work so consistently. having 67.8% winrate in a vehicle over 413 battles is not something you can do by getting lucky with teams.
glad I said KD is only part of what determines whenever player is good.
thats just cope.
This fail on my example with Sherman (Hell) because it got more games till my TT E8, and one has been in game only for little over 4 months (not to mention ive spent last month on UK 7.7).
I am the one whos fixated on saying someone is wrong. not you, dismissing hard, factual data as unreliable.
As I said, you can manipulate it by merely not spawning it in bad maps or games which are already on thier way to losing…
It’s not deadset on one players skill.
Semantics…
lol no…
I can’t see how you think this is a fail, if the scenario can be gamed as I say, the overall reliance on the winrate is flawed.
Factual data which is being interpreted in a manner that ignores that you aren’t the only one responsible for the win itself…
Yes, this is true. However, a lot of people still one death leave. Evidently the current rewards aren’t enough to entice these people to stay.
IMO the best way to stop ODL is to identify the underlying causes and adress them.
I can guess some of these reasons already: dissatisfaction with maps, uptiers, unbalanced teams, unfavorable nation matchup etc.
Naturally people have their own reasons, and they may be very different from one player to another.
That’s why I think Gaijin should take a more active role. If someone leaves the match early they should be prompted by a official feedback form where they can state the reason why.
If enough people report the same (valid) reason then it’s something Gaijin should adress!
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The issue with that will be that only those that are leaving give that feedback… (Not saying it’s a bad idea, it could be something)
You’d almost have to ask every player after that player ‘Someone left in your match, did you see any issue with it?’
It’s like yesterday someone was complaining about ‘nefarious player’ being able to see through buildings and across the map merely because they died…
I checked the server replay and there was no way that guy was anything more than skilled, and the guy who was upset was really upset and blind.
There are a million possible causes. Addressing them all is a fool’s errand.
Maps are changed all the time. Overall they’re pretty good, though there are glaring exceptions. But if someone reaches their frustration threshold and would rather not play a map instead of learning it, that’s a player problem, not a game dev problem.
I guarantee you that you could give people access to fantastic video tutorials for how to play each map, and people would still 1DL if they get frustrated. It’s just the nature of PVP.
To me this is also a fundamental misunderstanding, many players legitimately have no idea what uptier actually means. Though I do blame Gaijin partially for this - someone who casually plays the game has no information about the game’s quantitative matchmaker. So they treat uptiers as much bigger deals than they actually are.
This one definitely plays a role. The lineup viewer has shown how bad the mismatch can be in lineups and BRs between two teams in the same bracket. This can create a negative feedback loop. You start out thinking that the other team is gonna win for sure, the match starts out badly, and so “why not quit rather than keep being punched in the face?”
Sure, why not. A lot of the time you’ll just get subjective unreliable answers, though.
Fundamentally, Ground RB is designed to be “Steamroll: The Mode”. This is because once you win the first engagement, you have a huge advantage: you know where the enemy will spawn from, you know the likely routes they’ll take, you can stay in cover and use third person view to look in front of you while staying concealed, and the better you do, the more spawn points you have, creating an avalanche effect.
This set up can create longer matches and epic comebacks, but it can also mean that people who were punched in the face once, will have to take the risk of being punched in the face twice to reclaim map control. Since people don’t like to be punched in the face, many will simply avoid that. Since you can’t directly control players, you can’t change this without fundamentally restructuring Ground RB. The most played mode in the game right now, so fair to say - not happening.
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Well well well
They lowered repair costs and people were cheering, they implemented time based repair costs and even more cheers. Now every moron can drive straight to the point in most meta tank, die, leave a game and pay 500sl.
Players are more obsessed on grind than actually having fun, so if you let them do that in the most lazy and brainless way they will do that all day long.
you reap what you sow community
9.3+ grb is unplayable with all one death leavers and the rot is expanding down in BRs.
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Some good points from all sides here. I will say, winrate is a combination of your team + your own skill. It’s not a uniform experience, some games that scale will sway. Some games your influence will be the factor that wins the game. But even then, your team is still vital and always matters.
Take the ‘easy nuke’ video I shared earlier:
I had a nuke under 5minutes. The rest of the team hardly got a kill in, but without the team that would not have been possible. They held the frontline that made my flanking action possible. Your team just being there and present is important. That’s why one death leavers hurt the team so much. Less friendlies holding the front, more map you have to cover, more focus of the enemy on you - less freedom in your own actions.
Another example of your team mattering:
But yeah, never take any stat at face value. Always think about what factors contribute to it, and what other stats may influence it. I’ve said before, but to me, team placement is one of my favourite stats, because that typically indicates whether a person is one death leaving or not.
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Yes, a concerning amount of players don’t know how uptiers work, and I’d say the game is at least partially to blame. I can’t recall ever seeing the “-1, +1” rule explained in game. So better player education could help in this regard.
However even if you know the system it’s still possible to have grievances about it. Many vehicles are already quite bad for their BR and become even worse when uptiered. A player who knows this may be discouraged from spawning again, or at all.
Lastly, that’s a great analogy! Playing War Thunder and being punched in the face doesn’t feel too dissimilar at times. While regular face punching is to a certain extent expected in PvP, it’s when it feels unfair that it really sucks.
I still believe we should hold the game to a certain standard and expect Gaijin to reduce the face punching as much as it’s possible.
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Yea, the BR spread is tricky, and it even gets complicated when you bring AB Air into it with the .3 drop if you run the planes with the average.
I’ve explained it to so many over time lol.
WT in general has a big problem with the enormous amount of info it needs to convey to players. When I was new to it, it was a nightmare. Little by little, this is improving.
That said, we should also not fall into the fallacy that “if everyone is presented with the same correct information, everyone will act in a predictable fashion”. That’s a common misconception, I fall into it all the time too. Well informed people will still make different decisions.
Like I said, this problem is heavily tied to the nature of Ground RB.
Arcade matches give you three spawns and that’s it. I assume it’s because it’s meant to be a mode where you get into the action quicker.
Sim matches give you a fixed pool of SP - I’m really not sure why actually, if anyone has insight I’d like to hear it.
But ground RB?
The problem with ground RB is that we the players are very lethal. It is fairly easy to kill, or get killed. The lack of markers also removes a helping hand for the less experienced players. So if we all had just one spawn like WoT, matches would be over in under five minutes.
How do you handle this lethality? You could make the maps much larger, but then people get bored and complain about it being a driving simulator.
An easy alternative: make it into a battle of attrition. This also enables you to make ground RB an accessible combined arms mode (easier to use than sim, without going all the way to arcade) and it also regulates player progression in research & economy.
All of this comes at a price.
Maps are “difficult” to design because it is much harder for a bunch of devs to design a map balanced for multiple spawn waves, than it is for a dude with 10k hours to find Cheese Spot 9000 and hold half the map. Not to mention that genuine, non-cheesy map control is a logical consequence of the snowball nature of the game mode.
Players have to research multiple lines. They often don’t bother and get frustrated. And all of this is on top of what we were just describing. You just got punched in the face, wanna come back for seconds?
It’s easier for us, veteran players with thousands of matches, to say no, damn it, I will respawn and I’ll get that guy, and I have an idea of how to do it. Maybe I do make it work and maybe I don’t, but the average player doesn’t have that perspective to begin with.
I genuinely don’t know how you’d fix this without changing the mode.
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