Invisible missiles need to be removed, made visible

Are you trying to say that there should not have been smoke when the f-22 shot down the balloon because it must have been cold or what?

I’m not trying to say anything about the Balloon incident, again - I simply said that we have both seen videos with smoke, and without smoke, some videos at high altitudes without smoke, and some at low altitudes with smoke…

Clearly something is causing this disparity. My understanding of things is that due to it’s special propellant there should not be smoke at any altitude with 9M, but rather condensation, and it’s dependant on conditions, please correct me but I would assume greatest factor to this is temperature right? Idk what correlation humidity has to it- anyhow, because we’ve seen evidence of ZERO smoke whatsoever at what’s likely 25,000-30,000ft where temperature never is higher than -20c to -30c afaik I’m personally inclined to believe that at least the F16 video had smoke for training purposes

Adding smoke to an air to air missile is not a known training practice. We aren’t educated enough in atmospheric conditions, missile propellants and condensation to know for sure. One can make research to learn more though.

Respectfully, how do you know this?

Maybe some of the devs of those mods over at DCS know more… they’ve modelled plenty of modern missiles into their game, I’d assume they’ve done their research.

Looking at the training missile modifications none of them have included anything that would induce extra smoke. CATM-9M, NATM-9M, neither modification includes any type of smoke generators.

Several threads have pointed out that the contrail implementation in WT is very very wrong currently.

I would imagine that 90+% of the time, 9Ms would produce so little contrails that its simply not worth adding it for those niche few times it would, and whether or not it would be anywhere near as visible as “smoke” is also a huge debate.

1 Like

Can you see any information regarding if they’re using the same motors? Doesn’t have to be a smoke-machine taped in the back

Yeah contrails are definitely wrong in the game atm

1 Like

It would be implemented on all missiles. While most of the time 9M would produce small contrails, there is no reason to not add the system to them when it can be added to them. Just for the realism and the small % of engagements that happen higher up. Also the game already has and is going to introduce medium and long range missiles with reduced smoke. Those engagements often happen way higher than where you use sidewinders where the conditions might allow smoke or effects of condensation to induce a visible trail. SAMs also need this system implemented as their performance is significantly hampered with unrealistic amounts of smoke. (they need it lessened).

It would be of good practice to model this system.

NATM-9M includes data gathering equipment (same motor as 9M) and CATM-9M was not a launchable missile (but i included it anyway).

“The AIM-9M missiles were converted to NATM-9M, or Special Air Training Missiles. The process consisted of replacing the tactical warhead with an inert warhead, and modifying the rocket motor for employment from the F-15 aircraft. (U.S. Air Force photo by Airman 1st Class Jessi Monte)”

It’s unclear what the modification is though…

1 Like

Seems like i was partially wrong about the NATM-9M, but the missile in the video of danish F-16’s was not a NATM-9M as it exploded on contact, it was still the original AIM-9M

The AIM-54C is reduced amoke irl, and its been bug reported since its dev server almoat a year ago, but gaijin pretends they dont see the bug report and categoricaly refuse to give it a reduced smoke motor for no reason at all…

My only issue with the 9m is that you cant even see it being launched, like at all. you should be able to at least see the motor burning and the missile should create a flash that should be visible when the missile is first launched. You shouldn’t be able to see it in full day maps, but in evening or night maps you should absolutely see the missile, but you just don’t. It’s invisible. You absolutely can see a 9m be launched at you irl, once it’s off the rail it’s gone though.

1 Like

That type of flash cannot be detectable through distances, even in footages its barely visible in close range.

What’s funny is , you can lock every missile with another missile when the motor is working , but you can’t lock 9M with missile. İt’s like , the motor isn’t there.

Helps you lock the hostile plane in headons. Your missile wont lock the 9m they fired but their plane instead. I see it as a bonus

Absolutely, but still, shows how half assed gaijin made it

You can see it within visual range and especially at night/evening/early morning. If you can see the plane, you can see the flash of the motor when it leaves the rail. At night you’ll probably see the motor of the missile before the aircraft if the burner isn’t going. This applies to all missiles, the 9m isn’t the only one effected but its the only one that causes issues because its the only low smoke motor in game. And yes rip aim54c.

1 Like

Fox 3’s will be DOA if multipath remains as effective as it is today. The Fox-2 meta will remain unchanged.