Fair, but during ancient times India and Indonesia had very close ties, with many Hindu and Buddhist states in Indonesia. And Indonesia’s use of French, Russian, and early American vehicles could fit nicely with India’s ground Tech Tree.
this is a moot point though,
- That was ancient history (with JP or NL its modern history, a bit more credible)
- you can say the same with the Ottomans or the other Arabic Kingdoms later on
- Our defence collaboration is almost nonexistent, yeah we participate in exercises together but thats pretty much it (we do that with everyone)
I just dont see a tangible enough evidence for it to go to India
5 Likes
Judging by this sub Tech tree idea Indonesia uses mainly French, Russian, American, and a bit of British tech. India also uses mainly Russian and French tech + the Indonesian American vehicles could complement captured American cold war vehicles from Pakistan. And India used mainly British tech before it became independent so the British tech in Indonesia could complement that nicely too.
this is not a good reasoning man, its like saying SK and Japan should be grouped together since they both operated American aircrafts and vehicles
just because we use similar equipment doesn’t justify the connection, if we were a part of the commonwealth then you can say that, but we’re not
4 Likes
It’s only signing MoU at the moment, and Indonesia loves signing MoUs, so it’s not guaranteed that they will procure them. Even when they already signed the procurement contract, it may not be realized, Su-35 and Mirage 2000 contracts comes to mind.
2 Likes
footage of the inside of IndoDefence 2024/25, some (very) close look at the P8 Light Tank & the 20mm P2 Tiger APC, as well as other interesting things (like the glide bomb for aircrafts)
Video has EN dubbing so should be cohesive enough
on a slightly unrelated note, my Cobra/Pandur suggestion is currently pending. My other suggestion (Aircraft - Cavalier Mustang II) has been stuck in pending for about a week now so dunno how that’ll go, but currently im making a suggestion for the Hanhwa Tarantula (Doosan Black Fox)
3 Likes
Does anyone know whether the Indonesian Marine Corps’ BTR-4M gunner sight has any thermals? I’m currently making a suggestion for it and i cant find any exact mention of it. It has the Arkan FCS with Panorama-2P but i don’t know the specifics of its & the gunner’s thermals (if it has any).
Additionally can anyone share some insights on the Barrier ATGM in Indonesian use? I dont know whether we bought the accompanying missiles for it, though on some trial footage on Ukraine it has them but not when it arrived here. There were firing trials in Indonesia but it only uses the main autocannons and secondary, but no mention of the missile
I think its worth mentioning, here are my current suggestion plans for Indonesia:
Currently Making:
- BTR-4M
Creating plans for:
- Anoa FSV (P) Early
- Anoa FSV (P) Late (literally only two image of this thing exist, but ill try)
- Anoa PK20
- Mi-35P (currently low priority)
- Badak FSV Prototype (exhaust on right side) (maybe, but not a concrete plan)
Already done suggestions and currently in pending:
- Cobra 8x8 IFV
And i’ve dropped the Pandur II FSV suggestion purely because i dont think its real, the turret just looks-off to me and i cant confirm whether the gun was ever tested (i’ve looked far and wide and cant get a definitive answer)
7 Likes
It does seem non-functional with what appears to be mock-optics and cannon. This seems really similar to the very early Harimau prototypes, so it’ll probably be equipped with a functional turret eventually unless it’s cancelled.
The integration itself shouldn’t be an issue, since the Pandur chassis has been tested with the Cockerill CT-CV turret, also using the 105mm HP cannon, which has been tested and test fired.
2 Likes
I don’t think we bought the missiles, considering the Marines cancelled further acquisition of BTR-4, and imo buying some (probably) expensive missiles just for a handful of BTR-4 might not makes sense for them.
1 Like
thats unfortunately the general consensus for the Pandurs/Cobras. That one singular example is probably the only one
https://x.com/Robe1807/status/1841463092397703220
“Believe it or not, Pandur II will not be procured again for now.
What a shame.”
“[The reason why is] The delivery time is slow and the user said that 8x8 is too big, strangely the Pussenkav itself asked for 8x8.”
which kinda makes sense considering that Pindad doesnt even showcase the vehicle on their website & the fact that the IFV version was sent abroad pretty quickly after they were delivered to the cavalry (just like the BTR-80, which im pretty sure by now has spent more time abroad than within the country)
yeah thats what I think too
tbf buying anything expensive (rather, anything at all) is not the Marine Corp’s M.O. either
1 Like
- Armament:
- Primary: ZTM-1 30mm Autocannon (350rds ready-to-fire)
- Cartridge: 30x165
- Ammunition:
- 3UBR8 APDS-T (BP)
- 3UBR6 AP-T (BT)
- 3UOR6 HEF-I (OFZ)
- 3UOF8 F-T (OT)
- Feed: Twin Belt
- Coaxial: KT-7.62mm Machine Gun (350rds ready-to-fire, 2,000rds stored)
- Roof-Mounted: KBA-117 30mm Grenade Launcher (116rds, 29 ready-to-fire)
- Tertiary: Dual Barrier ATGM Launcher (Two missiles ready-to-fire, two stored)
- Missile:
- RK-2S Missile
- Warhead: Tandem-HEAT
- Caliber: 130mm
- Range: out to 5km
- Penetration: at least 800mm of RHA behind ERA.
- Guidance: Semi-Active Laser
- RK-2OF
- Warhead: HE-FRAG
- Caliber: 130mm
- Range: out to 5km
- Penetration: at least 60mm of RHA.
- Guidance: Semi-Active Laser
- RK-2S Missile
- Missile:
- Turret Specifications:
- Elevation/Depression: +45/-5
- Traverse: 360-degrees
- Primary: ZTM-1 30mm Autocannon (350rds ready-to-fire)
- Optics:
- Gunner: OEP-VN Opto-electronic Electro-optical Sight (Thermal Imager)
- Commander: Panorama-2P Imager (Night Vision Device)
Feel free to hit me up on any info for Ukrainian-origin. The BTR-4M and BTR-4MV1 utilizes almost the same components for weapons, etc., you can copy and paste stuff from my suggestion. Sources are in this post^
1 Like
This is quite helpful, thank you!
Though i do have a follow up question about the BTR-4EP. From what i can see it looks identical to the BTR-4M, except that the Indonesian version lacks some floatation devices in the rear and side of the vehicle. Are these two variants derived from the same base model and is it purely a visual difference just like the BTR-4MV1?
Yes they’re very similar and derived from the same hull but the main difference is the engine.
1 Like
-1
Finally done with the revision of the tech-tree image!
Alternative : IMGUR LINK
Read the changes here:
CHANGES
ADDED:
- 14 (15 in V5.1)(+2 in V6) new vehicles added to the tree
- Added the pre-retrofit variant of vehicles
- FV601 Saladin
- Scorpion 90
- AMX-13/75 Mle 51, AMX-13/105 Mle 58
- Added trialed/tested vehicles
- SK-105
- ERC-90 F1 Lynx
- Wiesel 1A4
- Added Car-mounted weaponry vehicles
- Recoilless
- MANPAD
- Rocket Launcher
- (V5.1) SPAA
- (V6) Land Rover QW-3 & TD-2000B
- Added Prototypes & Early variant of the Badak FSV
- Badak FSV P1
- Badak FSV P2
- Badak FSV (Early)
- Folders and grouping for similar vehicles
- Reworked the order of vehicles
- Renaming of AMX-13 to their model instead of turret type
- Slight renaming of the LAV-150 & AMX-10P
- Changed Badak FSV to Badak FSV (Late)
- (V5.1) Adjusted the heading name & position for each line
- (V5.2) Added square colors to determine which distribution they fall into
- (V6) Lowered the GROM Poprad’s Rank to Rank 6
REMOVED:
- Some Mock-up only vehicles has been removed
- Badak Skyranger
- Cobra 8x8 FSV
Here’s the added vehicle’s images (excluding pre-retrofits):
IMAGES
Land Rover Hornet (QW-3)
TD-2000B (SX-2110)
Morris C8 MK.III (Type 89 Flexible)
⬠ Wiesel 1A4
Jeep C-7 (LRAC 89)
Gaz-69 (Recoilless)
⬠ ERC-90 F1 Lynx
Badak FSV (P1) | Interchangable with P2 as its unknown which came first. Slightly different hull (presumably exhaust on left of hull)
Badak FSV (P2) | Interchangable with P1, same reasoning. Uses same hull as the Badak Early (right-side exhaust)
⬠ SK-105
Badak FSV (Early) | Exhaust on right side of hull
P8 Light Tank
Land Rover Series III (RBS-70) | No radar
With this new version, the tree currently has a total of 62 possible vehicles, with the distribution of:
- 25 Original Vehicles
- 19 Copy & Pastes
- 18 Miscellaneous
- 12 Domestic/Unique variants of existing designs
- 6 Non-domestic, but has few user nations
CHART
[Not updated, count them yourself :)]
4 Likes
But the heavy line is too short
its not really a big issue since the light tanks make up the numbers, plus there isnt even any heavy to add since its not a part of the tank doctrine
3 Likes
Possible Premium Idea The PT 76 MLRS Prototype with 140 mm BM 14 Rockets
1 Like
The ‘Palawa Tank, Roket’. Also known informally as the TAPIR.
Forum suggestion:
an interesting option for sure, was created by the same company that carried out Nimda’s PT-76M Modernization in the early 90s for the Marine Corps as well
2 Likes