Don’t forget that Indonesia has the BTR-4M so, another way to introduce another Ukrainian vehicle
I’m in love with this vehicle
Spoiler
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The suggestion now has a dedicated sub-tree image, courtesy of @NFrost51. The descriptions and additions of vehicles will be updated soon. Below in the spoiler is a copy of the tree layout.
Spoiler
Edit: For some reason the image doesn’t like “Spoilers”. Check out the suggestion to see the full-size. Bonus vehicle images below:
The Harimau tank, armed with an advanced Cockerill 3105 turret.
The Badak FSV with a unique 90mm gun.
The Indonesian-specific BTR-4M, built and exported by Ukraine.
The Cobra 8x8 IFV, a Pandur II that’s heavily modified to meet the needs of the Indonesian Army.
The main battle tank of the Indonesian Army, the Leopard 2RI
Additional Note:
- The Indonesian military loves there modern 90mm guns, some of which can fire APFSDS-T.
- Badak FSV
- FV101 Scorpion 90
- Anoa 6x6 FSV
- V-150 FSV
- Tarantula FSV
- PT-76(M)
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excellent work like always Yontzee, i’m a fan of your suggestions all of them very interesting indeed
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Thanks man! I really appreciate it. I’m trying to go back through my old suggestions and clean them up. If you see any that are incorrect or missing information, feel free to drop a comment on it. Also stay tuned for my new ones that are pending:
- Current overall suggestions pending:
- (RU) T-72B3 obr. 2016 (Arena-M), or aka T-72B3A
- (RU) BMP-3 ‘Manul’
- (RU) BTR-22
- (RU) BMP-3 4S24 NKDZ
- (UA) Object 478BEM1
- (UA) T-64BV (Zaslin)
- (RS) HARPAS SPAAG
- Current projects being worked on/updated:
- Ukraine Ground Forces Tree
- Indonesian Ground Forces Sub-tree
- Perspective projects:
- (UA) Mi-24PU1
- (UA) Mi-24PU2
- (UA) Mi-8MSB-V
- (UA) Strela-10 “Beam” (RK-10 Missiles)
- (UA) Strela-10M (Valli)
- (US) M2A4E1 Bradley
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The Indonesian BTR-4M looks a lot like the BTR-4MV1. Do you know about the Indonesian variant’s protection?
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They’re Ceramic Armor panels with the option to use ERA/NERA filler. Idk the specifics for the armor, but it’s rated to STANAG 4569 Level 5 (rated against 25mm AP rounds). If it doesn’t have the filler, they could be layered “Akustic” composite paneling inserts. They’re light enough to be able to retain the BTR-4M’s amphibious capabilities from my understanding but I’m not sure if they have used it that way.
The BTR-4M definitely lacks many of the modern features of the BTR-4MV1 however, they do share the same addon armor (just not the same amount of it), remote combat module, etc. The big difference is the BTR-4MV1 fully meets NATO standards.
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Small correction, for the PT-76M it uses the triple muzzle brake which i recall cannot fire APFSDS (but will be able to fire falarick in the future), and for the scorpion (including the anoa version) it was never equipped with darts, its mostly just HEAT and HE, but yes the others do carry APFSDS
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Yeah I forgot variants like the Mk. 3, etc. can’t use it
+1 as sub tech tree , but there is problem that i think of
- which country this sub tree will be added ?
- history of Indonesia armament especially during ww2 until end 50 is really vague, for example in the sub tree we have lvt 4 in rank 1, in my little knowledge ID just have the transport version not the “assault” version, another example the m4a3 sherman tank that we received 9 unit from NL in ID source says it has the 75mm cannon, while NL source says it has 105mm howitzer cannon or same m4a3(105) in game. so idk 🤷
- another copy paste tech tree.
maybe thats the problem that i think rn. and for vehicle suggestion
- maybe add dutch east indies vehicle like herrington MTLS , herrington CTMS, m5a1, and etc as premium vehicle.
- also possibly add pt 76 retrofit 2020, if vehicle really happening soon.
( sorry im too lazy to add vehicle description )
Likely Japan, considering the planned SEA subtree
But it might also be added to a future combined Korean tree.
They had LVT(A)-4, which I believe this suggestion is referencing.
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Indonesia actually has a lot of unique vehicles, especially for their ground forces.
The subtree overview also shows the overwhelming majority of domestic vehicles, while even others are often modified or otherwise new to the game.
I can see that being possible, but only for those later used by Indonesia. The Netherlands themselves already have a place in game, so vehicles purely used by them wouldn’t go anywhere else.
I believe this one is already mentioned as the PT-76(M)
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i think they mentioned the nimda / israeli upgrade one and they done already in the '90 not the 2020 upgrade variant which offered by Ukraine. link for the 2020 upgrade Україна буде модернізувати ПТ-76 для Індонезії: унікальні фото та подробиці | Defense Express . the problem with this upgrade is still not been seen around yet.
dumb me, thats why i mention armaments history is really grey for me. i think i will looking the source
The British (and then the Dutch) Landed around 21 shermans in preparation for the attack on Surabaya, and 3 tanks were reported to have been destroyed by the Indonesians with captured IJAF cannons/weaponry, and another 1 was reported to suffer heavy damage. These tanks are of many versions, but atleast 3 were known, M4A1 and M4A3 with the 75mm cannon, and the M4A3(105). From footages of the tank, some were early variants and some were the later ones with reworked front glacis.
Brief history
After the national revolution and the round table conference, the former netherlands’ KNIL and Veldpolitie members were to be reintegrated with the TNI under one banner, the APRIS. Due to the formation of the joint armed forces thing, the Dutch/KNIL transfered most of its military equipment to APRIS under the agreement that former KNIL members would be allowed to join the newly formed state.
now to the Shermans itself, the KNIL transfered them to the KKO/Indonesian Marine Corps at around 17th of August 1961, with 9 units being given that they (the KNIL) had been using previously, so we can presume that theyre of the same 3 variants. But the one with actual photographs used by the KKOs are the M4A3s with what looks like a 75mm cannon, thats why its the one being suggested and not the others
5 can be seen in this image
it’s unknown how long the Sherman was used for, as the lack of spare part, high operational cost and wasteful engine, as well as its age made the tank inefficient. Retrofit programs were also not conducted due to the limited amount of them. So what most likely happened is that they were salvaged and turned to scrap. The only Sherman left in Indonesia is the one singular T14E1 ARV in Bandung
this could be interesting discussion about sherman in ID, so what i found in
https://www.shermantank.nl/history%20of%20the%20shermantank%20in%20Holland.htm
and quick description, the sherman that they give to ID is M4A3 (105) variant which ex from dutch marine brigade, 15 unit’s station in ID during '47 period they bring from US directly from “lend” program , after marine brigade disband they give ID 9 tank and brought back 6 to NL, there’s also others m4a3 in NL inventory but thats M4A3E8 variant and retrieve after '50.
in another dutch website Pantser.net
that the sherman they got is M4A3E8 105 from us " lend " program but they didnt mention m4a3 105
and it seems we got DD variant if im not wrong, and that will make m4a3 (105) DD ?, but in the photo didnt show the DD part.
but if this real m4a3 75 we need too look the gun mantlet. in this case is not possible because driver and machine gunner/radioman hatch blocking the view , the only thing clue is on
if im not wrong
the way I understand it is that 21 tanks were first deployed by the British in the Battle of Surabaya in 1945, if i recall that was when the first Shermans of all variants arrived in Indonesia, then after the British pulled out of the war, the those sherman variants that were left in Indonesia was then transfered to the Dutch, so it could be the 75mm or 105mm
for the one in the image, without the gun shield its hard to tell especially with the gun aimed upwards like that, but now im leaning towards the 150 since the gun mount seems to protrude a bit more than the 75mm mantlet, but im no sherman expert so im not exactly sure either
Additionally for the PT-76(M), Ive put the Indonesian flag because its from the 2020 upgrade by PT. Lumindo Artha Sejati (PT. LAS) rather than the PT-76-2000 Nimda one. Indonesia did use both version, but the 2020 local version is the one i propose which is virtually identical upgrade to the 90s onebut with the changing of the tracks to a to a new rubber T157 tracks made by Chaiseri defence, a Thai company
difference
Nimda upgrade (different track chain)
PT. LAS version (rubber tracks)
Clearer image of the rubber tracks
the PT. LAS version is the one that will be upgraded with the LCTS90, although AFAIK there hasnt been any news of the upgrade since 2020, most likely due to the current situation over there
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that’s why i mention that the history vehicle it self is vague/grey and i dont think they will leave useable sherman during that time with their main purpose to come to Surabaya, and also especially after they got strategically win the battle, except if they are too in love with their solid shot.
i think its much better, if we do the nimda upgrade one rather the LAS version with different track, and the LAS version will be with diff turret, so we have 3 different PT 76, the soviet, nimda, and LAS version. also it will make easy “development” for snail, and hopefully the vehicle will be appear soon.
well the nimda one and the LAS version is identical, so I dont think its worth it to have 2 of virtually the same tanks, plus the LAS version is domestically made so it would be the better version to be implemented than a foreign upgrade package.
i think get the point rn ?. so we using PT -76 ( M) models and modules used in the 2020 reconditioning program by PT LAS.
also what im trying say, maybe in the future we can add the PT 76 ( M ) that have upgrade package from Ukraine and PT.LAS. so we have 3 different PT-76
also back to sherman
so what i found in YouTube footage battle of Surabaya, the sherman that British using during battle of Surabaya is possibly all of them is sherman III/IV in game.
in other hand from footage during police action / dutch military aggression, the dutch / NL is using M4A3 (105).
and with
the idea bring in M4A3 (75) W is kinda drop down for me, and could be change it to M4A3 (105)
yes but thats the dutch sources, the Indonesian one mentions not only the Dutch 105, but also the British one that was supposedly given to the Dutch, im not saying that the 105 wasnt received, im saying that it could be the 105, and/or the 75mm variants
not to mention that some equipments obtained after the national revolution is barely mentioned or even aknowledged of its existence in records, just like the humfox
if that 75 mm sherman that will probably sherman III/IV that british india use, and that tank is already have in game.
i think we need proper resources from Indonesia side