This is not the Zerstörer 45 the Mobelwage chassis was only used for testing of the guns and never designated nor met to be the Flakpanzer IV 3cm Flakvierling (Zerstörer 45), the programme was to upgrade the wirbelwind by changing the guns from the quad 20mm to the quad 30mm, and as you can see the Mobelwage don’t meet the requirements set by the programme.
Now ppl will say Gaijin went with what was actually built yes but the all documents says that the Mobelwage was only for testing and it say “its was first built on the Mobelwage chassis for testing purposes” and it never says that it was only built on the Mobelwage giving the meaning that Mobelwage used first to test the guns then it was transferred to be put in a wirbelwind turret, in the other docs we can only see illustration of what the Zerstörer 45 is supposed to look like but in the fifth one we can see under prototypes that there is at least one Zerstörer 45 was actually built (the upgraded wirbelwind and not the Mobelwage).
Now someone ppl will argue that it may not be completely finished others will say Gaijin went with what was confirmed to be built all argument are correct but let’s us not forget that Gaijin them selves added some unfinished and fake vehicles and ofc these vehicles come to the game with in their full production and final forms for example:
LAV-AD it suppose to have 7 rockets but Gaijin give it a pod with 19 rockets.
Yak 141 it was introduced with it’s full capabilities yet irl it lacks some avionics systems and most of it’s armament.
Ho-229 irl it never used it guns.
Ostwind II there is almost no proof it was built accept for some description on how it’s supposed to look like.
Tog II Gaijin add it to the game in its final form
R2Y2s and HO-RI production all of them weren’t even built but yet thay still be added for the purpose of closing gaps.
Kronshtadt it wasn’t even finished irl yet Gaijin still added in its final production form.
So with all of this why the Zerstörer 45 wasn’t added in it’s final form, bc apparently Gaijin doesn’t care about what was actually built so why the Zerstörer 45 got it’s right to be in its final forms stripped away and all we got is the Mobelwage chassis with the quad 30mm that was only used for testing and never ment to be used nor set to be the final production form.
So some ppl will not care and won’t see it as a problem nor a priority for me and maybe for some other ppl i see this as some kind of double standards and in my opinion we should get the real Zerstörer 45 the real flakpanzer IV 3cm Flakvierling.
So my idea is this:
Gaijin ether remove the fake Zerstörer 45 and replace it with the real one in its final production form or they change the name to it’s proper name which will be ether 3 cm Flakvierling auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen IV (Sf) or Möbelwagen mit 3 cm Flakvierling and then add the Zerstörer 45 some time later.
So i the end this is only a discussion and ofc my thoughts and ideas aren’t perfect so i would like to here other ppl thoughts on this subject.
Literally all you have demonstrated is that it shouldn’t be named the Zerstörer 45.
As for the Kronshtadt, Gaijin has explicitly said the rules are different for ships. That’s also why we have the Etna.
When it comes to the R2Y2s and the Ho-Ris, those were added nearly 10 years ago and no longer meet the criteria for adding vehicles. The same applies to the Ho 299. In fact, Gaijin said they have plans to remove the R2Y2s in an answers from the devs a year or 2 back.
As for the TOG II, your point is moot because the intended final form was an extra cannon in the hull that only fired smoke and 2 machine gun sponsons, not the same guns on an entirely different vehicle. The same applies to the Yak-141.
To be clear, I don’t agree with it, I don’t agree with the Yak-141 being ingame in this form or the LAV-AD having 19 rockets instead of 7, but Gaijin’s criteria, while a little iffy, do not permit what you are claiming they are.
The fact of the matter is that regardless of whether or not it is named correctly (it isn’t), this vehicle did exist. It’s a real vehicle with a wrong name, something incredibly common in War Thunder given Gaijin’s horrible naming, not a fake vehicle. It’s correct name should probably be Flakpanzerkampfwagen IV (3cm Fla.K.-Vierling).
Its so slow and unprotected. You have to reload every 120 shots and turret traverse often can’t follow planes. Gunhandling is bad. Mobility is bad. Pen is around 75mm.
So compared to the Leopard 1 italian SPAA at 5.3 worse in ever margin.
Honestly yeah at this point probably the best solution is just to rename the vehicle.
On a separate note and regarding the TOG II, what we have in-game is a massive amalgamation of the mockups and various ideas floating about during its design process. Having spoken to Andrew Hills about it he’s stated the entirety of the model is incorrect for what it’s supposed to be. He specifically notes for example that it has the wrong turret, the muzzle brake is misshapen, the suspension is entirely incorrect etc. He’s also quite plainly stated the “finalized” TOG II was never intended to have sponsons nor was the suggestion for a 3" smoke gun even considered for it.
There is already a long thread on the subject and the conclusion was…no one agrees, and some just don’t care. My opinion is…
The 2cm Mk103 flakvierling was only ever built on the mount made for the 2cm flak 38. It was a complete failure being subject to vibration issues that literally made the gunner sick. Most people agree at least one Mobelwagen was certainly allocated for transport/testing but as the gun failed ground tests it’s unlikely a mobile version would have been proceeded with in this form, but I can live with that.
As for the games ‘Zestorer 45’ name or any suggestion of a production type vehicle I am very sceptical due to the failure of the test mount as mentioned. If they had presented it as a prototype Mobelwagen mit Flak 103/38 Flakvierling or something similar then all would be good as it would fit in the 'near enough for government work ’ category. I’m also sceptical especially of written evidence presented almost entirely in English not German! I would have no problem if it included snippets of the original or references but it might as well have been ripped from a wiki page.
(post war translated materials were just as prone to errors as any other, for example for many years the Bf109A was believed to be an unbuilt variant until original documents were unearthed decades later that led to a review of the originals. I much prefer original or testable reference materials, or better yet pics even if it screws with suggestions or corrections (still lacking the killer for my Il-2 torpedo bomber despite t being 99% provable for a suggestion).
A couple of other notes only to keep this short-ish…
R2Y2 might eventually be removed entirely. 2 of the 3 variants are already gone and if the likely Thai/pan Asia sub tree grows it might get supplanted.
Naval has slightly different rules due to the longer built times involved. Kronshtadt inclusion isn’t a problem in itself as it was laid down and specs and plans are available. What’s wrong is the guns used in game are paper projects that weren’t even prototyped. The Russians were forced to change to a larger but less powerful type that did exist but this is not reflected in the model. It still would have been a strong ship, but the Devs screwed up and the real hull + fantasy guns has plagued it ever since.
