- Yes
- No
I would like to suggest a implementation/rework of how Time Fuzed Shrapnell shells (and HE-TF, which is a different propper suggestion) are implemented against airtargets, currently there are some few Shrapnell rounds in game, only in the russian tree, however are missing an imporant fuction, their Time Fuze function, generally all Shrapnell shells had a dual impact and time fuze, to be used as long range “canister Shot”, where mid air the shell detonated and pushed the shrapnell outwards to the front in a cone, as well as with impact fuze and delay, against troops behind obsticals and protection, penetrating those and releasing the shrapnell behind them (how it is currently only depicted as, as a bad APHE shell). Thats why i also post this here simply to see and not as a propper suggestion (it was denied as there are currently no Shrapnell-TF shells in game…)
Historically speaking the Shrapnell-TF or Shrapnell-Time Fuze (as well as HE-TF) were the pre version of HE-VT and more accuratly the AHEAD round (of usage), designed to be manually operate to detonate in front of the target and litter it with shrapnell (or incendary shrapnell)
How do they work, and how is it represented in game (with HE-TF shells)?
For Ground targets it should be keept as is, its simple to use:
In game you range find a target or other obstacle, it then is programmed to that fixed range distance of you to the target, no matter in what direction you move or aim, the range until explosion is fixed to the last ranged distance. As such you could move 1-2m closer and make the round detonate behind obstacles.
While this is a bit limiting in usage and very simplefied, i think that it can stay as such, as its not too far off IRL and can still be used.
IRL you also estimated the range, added some more (or less) and adjusted the time fuze to it, to let it explode according to your need, be it over it, next to it (around a corner) or in front of it to litter it with shrapnell.
For Air tagets, it should be refined:
Currently its simply just like it is for ground targets as explained above.
However IRL it takes some more steps to how Flaks were operated to effectively use the ammo and effectively engage the targets, be it bombers or other aircraft.
From the ground the flight speed, direction and height of planes was determind and for a detonation near and in front the plane, the Time fuze was changed so that it would detonate below it for Shrapnell effect to litter it with Shrapnell, which didnt need to hit the target, unlike normal HE grenades.
While as written above you had a rangefinder and Fire controll computer for Flak Batteries to have the range, height, direction and speed to accuratly have the shells detonate, in game however these shells only explode upon impact as well as to the rangefinded range, which can only be changed over the range finder but not manually or anything, meaning that ALLWAYS the imput will be wrong.
This is bad and barly usable if not hindering, as a plane is moving when you rangefind the range it will allways be simply wrong, especially if it is moveing closer to you direction as with time the range to detonation needs to be shorter, which cant be accounted for, as the relative distance gets shorter, (even if the flight height stayes the same), and lead isnt even accounted for.
So it needs to be reworked to be closer to IRL, but also simple to use, as otherwise it will again be a nightmare.
Like i have written above, such shells were the crude grandfather of AHEAD rounds, if you compare them, how they work this is especially aparent, however who makes it is difference, while back then a whole crew was needed, now it is made by only the gunner and the computer:
Target aquireing, back then the Commander/Battery Leader, for AHEAD its the computer, Radar.
When the target is found the range, flight direction, height and speed is mesured, this was made by the crew with rangefinders, nowerdays this also taken with the Radar.
Then with that input the shells are timed, with lead in mind, to detonate befor (or near the target with HE shells), to achive its intended usage, of littering the target with shrapnell.
This takes of course a bit more time, but once aquired “updating” the informations were easy for the crews.
Nowerdays for AHEAD its the same, just combinded in the fire controll systems, the range, speed and lead for a in front detonation are programmed live per shot to the round to spray it with shrapnell.
So my suggestion is to give them, vehicles with sayed ammo the possibility (tho as human factor and ballancing in mind) the ability to sort of act like AHEAD (is implemented).
What i mean with that:
NOTE: Im NOT saying that TF shells should be changed to a C&P AHEAD, but how AHEAD is implemented in game is simple and easy to use, while IRL these 2 shells (AHEAD and Shrapnell-TF) are overall pretty much identical, except form where the imput comes form, while AHEAD used fire controll systems and a Computer, the TF shells recive their imput slower and from a human crew (tho there were allready fire controll systems in WW2). So overall an adapted way of how AHEAD is implemented should be given to TF shells.
- Give these vehicles with the ammo the ability to lock on targets (like the crew would “lock on” a target, which they aquired as such (a simple marker, not automatically following the targer).
- Have live feed of range (tho of course slower and less accurat that AHEAD has in game, like if you would still use the rangefinder)
- Give them a lead marker which is the most simple representation of accounting for lead and direction of flight for which the rangefinder crew was part of the vehicles / flak Batteries crew.
This would keep it more realistic and be a great QoL improvement as well as make the Shrapnell-TF shells even viable.
In the Spoiler below you see the construction as well as a 3D render of how it works of the 8,8 cm Br.Schrap.Gr. which would be a Incendary Shrapnell grenade Time Fuzed (and impact fuze), which needs to explode befor the Target and works otherwise like AHEAD ammo, if they dont directly hit the target.
As such the below (not yet in game) round as well as the Shrapnell-TF shells allread in game would be affected and greatly improved:
8,8 cm Flak 37 Sfl.
7,62 cm YaG-10 (29-K)
T-28
and more possible vehicles in the future, not to mention modern vehicles such as with DM11 round.
Br.Schr.Gr. (Shrapnell Incendary TF (No Tracer)) 9kg Filler see inside Spoiler 820m/s
Expelling Charge: 56g Smokeless powder
Brusting Charge: 114g Amatol
Incendary Pelets: 72x of 30mm x 15mm
Made of Barium Nitrate, Magnesium Alloy, Alluminium Alloy, Acid Insoluble
More examples can be found in the following 2 Topics:
Source:
TM-9-1985-3
Private Gallery / Website / Ebay auction.
“Fuzes” Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune
