Yes, sorry Let me correct me.
1 Like
The UK getting the Osa SAM as well, this gonna be lit.
Honestly man, if I wanted to spend 90% of my battle just loitering the battle in a CAP… I’d go play my Jets in Air RB instead.
I play ground specifically to play ground vehicles. Sometimes it’s fun to bring out Baz / Barak / Saraph near the end of the match, but ultimately, I am playing this game mode for the purpose of playing and enjoying ground vehicles. Something which the lack of competent SPAA makes extremely difficult.
If CAS is so powerful that it renders some countries incapable of actually playing ground battles, and making them devote their entire purpose of being in the match to nothing more than saving SP for CAP… well… that’s a pretty damming indictment on the unhealthy presence of CAS.
1 Like
If I’m not mistaken, the British are getting a new air-to-ground missile, but it has been “nerfed” because it could cause team kills using radar guidance. The problem with adding bombers with long-range cruise missiles is that we don’t have anti-air (AA) to defend against them. Even with a modern B-29, we don’t have enough space to deploy an F-35 in tank matches because their effective range is much greater than 1,000 km. Imagine adding a jet that you won’t be able to see, but it can see you; you’ll be hit by missiles, bombs, or long-range ground-attack missiles, and you won’t be able to fight back effectively.
We will face challenges with the Su-34, but it still needs to get relatively close to be effective in the game. This makes it acceptable for it to participate in matches. An F-35 in small maps is nothing more than a boss that controls both ground and air at its own leisure.
Adding these types of armaments would further harm you, as you’re already struggling to adapt against us CAS players. Imagine hating me even more simply because I have the advantage of not even being detected on your radar while my missile is already heading for your head. And now I say, it’s you who is shooting yourself not just in the foot but in the head.
shouldve put /s, mb
On the contrary, if a player has managed to earn enough points to spawn with a fully loaded F-16 or A-7D, they have certainly contributed much more to the team with their vehicle. I usually have to capture a point, kill 3 or 4 vehicles, and if I can, and I’m allowed to reach the other side of another flag, I capture that one too. Not only does this help my team while I’m playing as a tank, but I’ll also contribute even more by playing as CAS.
Saying that the importance of a player focused on ground attack is null is not right. Often, we need to do much more to gain access to our aircraft’s weapons and sometimes die just 20 seconds after spawning due to a Pantsir, as I’ve experienced several times. We already struggle with limited space to react as soon as we spawn at the air point, and I’m still here collaborating to further hinder myself just to see how far I can go to improve my abilities to help my team.
Here’s an idea, how about we put a Pantsir in everybody’s lineup, the same way everyone gets a strike drone in their lineup.
Balance solved, everybody’s happy.
Nah, just make pure CAP aircraft cost 70 SP, including Fox-3 Slingers at top tier :P
There have been topics that provided good suggestions for anti-air (AA) systems for each country, but the basic missiles of those AAs are superior to those of the Pantsir. This would lead CAS players to come to the forum and complain heavily; we would literally just be swapping the side of who has more problems.
God forbid CAS not be the dominating presence in ground battles anymore.
Imagine a hypothetical reverse of this situation, where we had player controlled Pantsirs in Air RB,. Just shooting down players right after they take off. Air players would justifiably call this outrageous. They would scoff at the SPAA players telling them to just ‘‘spawn a tank and come counter me’’.
But for some reason, we’re allowed to do nothing from the ground in ground battles. (Well, except Russia)… The rest of us just have to accept that we will be obliterated in our spawns. We just have to accept a permanent state of helplessness from above. We have to tolerate ‘Just spawn a jet and counter me’ advice. As if a ground player wants to play CAP anymore than an Air RB player wants to play a tank.
This whole topic basically just boils down to tankers not wanting to be bullied in their only mode, vs CAS players who don’t want to lose their bully privilege in their side mode.
3 Likes
But tell me, what other means do you think you can use if you don’t have an AA like the Pantsir in your lineup? Just blocking us from tank matches is not only against any kind of “reality” but also makes any armament aimed at CAS unnecessary. It’s part of ground battles to defend yourself with an aircraft; if you don’t earn the necessary points for that, then it’s not our fault as CAS players.
All the AAs that have been suggested in this forum have missiles that are superior to the Pantsir. If they are implemented, they would need to be nerfed to fit the match properly. I’m not mocking you for not wanting to defend yourself more effectively; if you want to play as a tank, go ahead. But you’re missing the part where self-defense not only helps yourself but also supports your entire allied team.
I do feel like I need to point out that AI SPAAGs in Sim are so massively overtuned that they create death spheres if you are carrying or have been carrying any A2G weapons. Been like that for over a year. It sucks.
It looks a bit like this:
There needs to be fair counter play for both sides, just making it purely and solely SPAA dominant is just as bad. Every nation needs stronger SPAA, even the soviets, but at the same time, those stronger SPAA could then enable new weapons to be added to aircraft for counter play, like ARMs.
In fairness, many aircraft that specialize in ground attack, dont really have a gamemode other than GRB either. This is one of the biggest issue imo. ARB is designed to be bad for them and the gameplay essentially boils down to bombing a base or trying to dogfight in an aircraft not meant to dogfight. Air Sim is probably the best we’ve got for ground attack aircraft currently, but many dislike the full controls and cockpit view and the gameplay is far from good for many, essentially boiling down to “drop bombs on bases” again.
The only gamemode that offers any degree of Challenge or Dynamism is GRB for these aircraft. Yes the counters need to be better and more importantly, more evenly distributed, but also they need to work on an air mode better suited for ground attack aircraft, like an Air RB EC with improvements to PvE objectives.
And then there are helis… PvE Heli EC Is such a total buggy mess that is so incredibly boring, its not even worth pretending it exists. It basically doesnt. Again, that means anyone who wants to play a heli, realistically speaking, is limited to one gamemode, GRB.
So fixing that would also go a long way.
1 Like
The subject is very complex. As a CAS player, I know how frustrating it is to be hit by an A6E-TRAM at 6 km altitude and not be able to retaliate for some reason I don’t understand. I know how annoying it is not to have ground defense at certain BRs. How did I overcome that? By using fighters to combat other fighters. Waiting for the company to make changes is unthinkable! You need to fight with what you have, even if it means leaving the ground and going after the enemy in the air. No airspace of any COUNTRY/NATION relies exclusively on its air defenses; they have jets focused on air superiority because they know how dangerous it is to leave the air to enemy domination. Refusing to combat this just because you don’t have a good enough AA doesn’t mean the problem favors those who are criticizing CAS. It’s complicated, but that’s life…
But congratulations, you covered the topic well.
Or, just keep them at their full capability, and we could consider actually lowering the spawn cost of CAS to reflect their new status as the underdog in the dynamic.
Actually competent SPAA would open the door for things like SEAD missiles. SPAA / CAS players could actually duel one another. It would be far more engaging for both parties compared to this current slop of CAS launching AGM’s & GBU’s from multiple times the range of 9/10 countries SPAA, and telling them to ‘just spawn a cap bro’ when they get frustrated with it.
RB EC is something I’d absolutely love to see. Not just because it would be fun, but because, as you say, it would take a huge burden off GRB by diluting the CAS mains elsewhere.
Yep, Though the only issue I have with spawning fighters (and dont get me wrong, as an air main im more likely to spawn in CAP and farm the free CAS kills :P ) is that its priced WAY too high. When SPAA costs 70sp but a CAP aircraft costs 550sp. It looses a lot of value personally. So a change to how CAP spawn costs are handled would be good. Was a really good suggestion the other day to ahve CAP get cheaper over the course of the match till its practically the same costs as SPAA after about 5-10 minutes
1 Like
Yep, but would need to be done right, currently the AI ground targets are woeful and really quite dull. So would need Gaijin to invest a huge amount of time and energy into it and currently, they dont seem to be bothered. Sim has long been Abandoned by the devs it seems.
1 Like
Do also consider that grinding a singular tech tree can take many months, sometimes years for F2P casual players - the kind of player who makes up the majority of the playerbase.
There will be many people who have made it to top tier in ground who simply will not have the top tier aircraft of that nation, and thus they lack the ability to go after top tier CAS (CAS who, with the introduction of Su-34 / F-15 will become incredibly effective fighters in their own right)
It is it unrealistic to expect the average player to have access to the this stuff. This is why they all call for better AA, because you need the counter to be located in an accessible manner, adjacent to the things experiencing the issue.
The solution to that does already exist in game. In naval, in addition to whatever you have in your line-up, you can have a choice to spawn in either a fighter or bomber (usually light bomber) appropraite for the BR/nation. That would be the simplest and best solution to that issue.
If they werent fully spaded, and had a “moderate” but fair loadout, it still incentivizes players to grind the air tree to allow them to gain access to better aircraft, loadout options etc. but doesnt leave them with nothing at all.
For example, for Britain 10.7, that could be:
Fighter:
Sea Harrier FRS1e (vs the FRS1 or FGR2 you would have access to from grinding the tree)
Bomber:
Jaguar GR1A with 2x 1000lb bombs and 2x rocket pods. (vs GR1A with 2x GBUs and Tpod and additional defensive aids like Phimat)
Agreed, works well in Naval.
The wider concept wouldn’t even be new to ground as they’ve done it with Strike drones, Just a shame they chose to do in the form of CAS for everyone instead of CAP for everyone lol.
Yeah… I really hate those drones. If nothing else, hitting them with the Stormer HVM is a pain in the…
2 Likes