Just flew CAP as Germany in my BF109 F-4 on Maginot line as support for my tiger 6.0.
Guess how far the runway is to B.
5 kilometers.
Do you know how fast a corsair F4U-4B laden with bombs can fly? 400 km/h with little effort without much time to accelerate. You don’t even need to mess with MEC as you’ll RTB before red temps can cause any issues.
Do you know how long it takes to RTB after dropping those bombs? Around 40 seconds, especially given corsairs have very strong flaps and airbrakes (it’s built into the landing gear, and it’s historical) allowing very quick landings.
How long does rearming take?
Well, my expert crew with 2.5 points in repair speed rearms in 25 seconds. Maxed crew can do it in 10 (dont even need to ace or expert) seconds.
So.
Every ~70-100 seconds, a single F4U-4B can drop 2 1000 lbs bombs. And an F4U-4B is not even the fastest plane, or the most heavily armed. Take the F8F instead with its 3 1000 lbs bombs. Or take the F82 with 2 2000 lbs bombs OR 4 1000 lbs bombs. All of them share similar speeds and acceleration.
This is why CAS is broken in my opinion.
It takes absolutely no time to re-arm and be back to threatening the enemy.
The airfields seriously need to be pushed back to at least 20 if not 30 km during WW2 brackets and 60 km for superprops and jets (I’m yet to unlock the big bombs for my P51H superstang, but I’m confident with its insane WEP it could hit 500 km/h very soon after take off even with 2x1000 lbs).
I think I’ve floated this idea before, but a lot of CAS proponents claim that CAS helps get rid of campers and overall improves tank gameplay.
So, to test this, Gaijin should implement a TO event mode for a week or so (like they did when they tested submarines or AMRAAMs) so that we can see what it would be like to play GRB without CAS. That way CAS players can still abuse ground players in the normal mode and ground players can get a reprieve from dying for no fault of their own.
One issue I have with airfields being so close in some games is that I am no sooner over the enemy’s side of the map and I being hit by AA from the airfield.I wish they would have a certain amount of BR related spacing when it comes to air fields. On the contrary its a pain miles behind my own airfield in higher tiers in a prop.
As far as CAS itself goes at low /mid tier I am fine with it.
I totally agree ,I have been a advocate of having a TO game for a while but even I am interested to see the bad points it may throw up.Will I even like the game I have asked for? We should certainly trial it for a bit of fun if nothing else.
I don’t see how Gaijin will lose millions by having no CAS when they dont have own-able CAS in Arcade.
I thought a fun way to run cas in ground battle would make there are 4 teams 2 air and 2 ground and both of them get objectives if air loses then they gain air superiority and the enemy team loses points or something this would keep air busy for a lot longer and punish people who are just there to bomb tanks because fighters would be there to stop them.
They have had events where the pilots would bail out near the end of the match and jump into a tank, thus getting credit toward earning event tanks, I saw combats where pilots on both sides were ignoring each other and pounding the enemy ground spawns.
Of course good spaa players are more rare these days because a lot of them realized it’s better to play CAP instead anyways, the skill floor required between the two are drastic. Doesn’t help that even best played spaa can do very little to prevent teammates from getting bombed against someone slightly above average(which is the whole point of playing)
Eddie, it sounds like you’re saying changing CAS would ruin it. I don’t think that’s what you’re trying to say, but wanted to check.
I once again had the joy of romping along in my T-25 and getting zapped by an A-10 using “advanced ordnance.” Then carpet bombed by a Shackleton. I can kind of live with the A-10 deal, although what from that BR 6.3-7.3 era is really gonna stop the Hog short of 40mm and 57mm…unless the A-10 is nerfed.
As I said in a far earlier post in this thread, heavy bombers–at least before the era of PGMs–don’t do CAS. COBRA in '44 was an attempt at CAS and caused significant fratricide. Heavies can do BAI, but they should get munched to death if they’re below 10k feet altitude.
So, that’s my number one: dump the heavies or give’em a hard deck so they’re really risking blue-on-blue kills if the bomb to close to the line-of-contact.
The intercept model needs to get changed, too, IMHO. What’s the point of choosing to fly an attack aircraft or bomber when the opposing fighter is planted pretty much in the after 90 degree arc and can effect an intercept regardless of the action of the “CAS” pilot.
Perhaps a team needs to accumulate a certain amount of points to get CAS, and that point total reflects local air superiority for the moment.
In some ways that is what I am saying but then I dont play above 6-7.
That is more of a War Thunder era issue than a CAS issue.
All I can say is that CAS issues die with CAS if it’s removed. What would it leave you with? A great ground forces game?A bad one? Who knows until we trial it?
If CAS in the more modern era is not devastating tanks then it’s not doing it’s job and that is something the devs should have thought about before introducing it or maybe its something the player base should have considered before asking for it.
I see them all begging for Subs in naval and I fear the worst.
Increasing spawn costs are good, but 90% of ppl just come along screaming to increase them as cope, but have no idea what SP changes should actually happen.
It should be more difficult, since it is just better than a tank. You can’t be killed as easily, and it is much easier to use. Tanks can’t fight back against planes, but tanks can fight back against tanks.
I dont think it is ,I doubt many players get 6 or more kills a game with a plane like they do in a tank.Like I said its combined arms so why limit plane use? its just goes against the grain
There is very little risk involved in doing cas. That is the main difference.
Planes should be limited because they aren’t balanced or fun. They don’t have reliable counters at many Brs, and they aren’t enjoyable to fight against. I shouldn’t be killed by something that I am unable to fight back against.
I suspect we are having a conversation about two different things here. You may be talking High tier CAS with multiple bombs and ATGM and some of us are talking WW2 with limited one pass bombs and MGs.
Another reason to advocate WW2 separation in game and forum.
Below around 7BR we can clearly see that CAS is already at a high ,maybe disproportionately high spawn cost so why keep calling for SP raises when we have that already? That may be very different at top tier ,I dont know.
At lower BR ironically enough; SPAA is likely to be your best choice for kills using just MGs as its hard to destroy a Tank with a machine gun.
I might even say at low tiers in this game if there were no SPAA then few might bother with CAS except for a quick revenge kill and even if that is successful its likely to be fire and throw away as in most fighter CAS the bombs drop together.
Like I said earlier ,we have had 12 years to “Balance” CAS and if its not balanced now then it never will be.
I’m actually talking about CAS below 7.7, before radar SPAA gets common.
It shouldn’t be very common to be killed by something you can’t fight back against. SPAA needs buffs, CAS needs nerfs. I don’t think CAS should be removed, but it should be harder to use, and it’s counters should be better.
As a CAS player myself I would say that the chances of getting multiple kills in a plane are slim and those who do are above average players.Many just lawn dart or spend most of the game flying aimlessly back and forth between base a couple of times or are shot down. Anybody can put a film up of the time they got a few kills with a plane and pretend they do it all the time (looking at you Oddbawlz ,Spookson etc )
When it comes to the Pe8 you can get x5 once in ten games but the reality is that you leave the game when you pick that thing if you dont get a kill or two and if you fail to get a kill with the first pass then you are F**** for want of a better phrase.You can also multi kill your own team mates.Most bombers are near useless as CAS.
I get better scores when I stay away from CAS if I am honest. CAS is fun but in most cases is it better than a tank? Its mostly an irritant getting MG hit points and marking targets for land units.
As for SP rises well we reached that destination years ago.So what now?
I dont want to sound rude(he says before sounding rude) but you are just mimicking other forum users here by calling for “Balance” with out even having any definition of what you mean by balance. Why would you imagine a plane should or would be balanced with a Tank? Are we not in trouble when we have that mindset?
I have called for a TO mode that is the answer to all your issues so please dont cheaply throw that one at me.
