Yes, I do.
But at least with that, they’re marked on the map, and you have spawn protection.
Against aircraft, unless you have a radar, you don’t know where they are…and when you do find them…chances are, that AGM or LGB is already en route.
And with the travel time…by the time it gets to you…spawn protection is over.
love this in depth covering of how you think things could be improved
the only REAL adequate spaa in high tier belongs to russia, their pantsir
Step 1
Remove the option for players playing tanks to spawn in aircraft. If a player joins the ground battles matchmaker aircraft are grayed out.
Step 2
Go through all the air tech trees for every nation and mark each plane with one of the following colour markers: Green, White, Red.
The end result should be all attackers and strike aircraft and dive bombers are marked green, all fighters that can carry bomb or rocket ordinance are marked white and all large strategic bombers, floatplanes, hydroplanes and fighters with no ground ordinance ability are marked red.
Step 3
Go and mark every helicopter with the same green tag
Step 4
The join in progress feature that currently exists in the game is expanded to allow join in progress between the air realistic matchmaking queue and the ground realistic matchmaking queue. If a player is playing air realistic and has it turned on the game will consider them viable to be matchmade into the ground forces match from the air rb queue.
Step 5
Update the ground forces matchmaker so that when it initially sets a match br and finds those first set of tank players it does a check to see if within the br range and in the appropriate nations any players are currently queuing with a green checked plane or helicopter. If it finds two viable players for each side they are matchmade into the ground forces match. The matchmaker continues to fill the match when it reaches 30 out of 32 players and it has 2 green pilot per side it picks up a remaining 2 pilots per side (2 whites preferred to be fighter cover for the 2 green marked planes) per side. The end result is both teams should have 12 tanks and 4 planes each. Smaller matches will see smaller sized plane sets, aircraft will always be a minority in each team representing at most 1/3rd.
Step 6: Those 8 planes/helicopters go by a modified Air RB ruleset. No respawns, start on airfield, only change is no markers on ground forces or enemy planes. Their objective is to defeat the opposing air force and support the ground force’s attack. They will have no direct effect on the match tickets, but new options to them include features like using bombs/rockets to ‘bomb’ cap points to ‘decap’ them to help the team, so they can assist ground forces but not dominate the match.
Step 7
Remove the spawn point system from ground forces as it’s no longer needed. It was created to control the flow of aircraft but tends to cause a snowball effect in matches regardless of aircraft. So its better to either use the preset points system used in simulator or set a hard cap on ground spawns like in arcade.
Step 8
Miscellaneous bits and bobs
-If no player is queing in a viable plane for the br that match is being matchmade for then the ground forces match will continue as a tank only match, Gaijin can set that such matches default to poor weather or night time to give an in world explanation of the lack of air support.
-Similarly a green marked plane unable to find a ground forces match to join will default to the standard queue after a preset time and matchmake into normal air RB match.
-squads can matchmake with the aim of getting into ground forces by having green marked planes in their lineup. Like current matchmaking gaijin will attempt to matchmake squad with squad.
-squads that bring both a green and red marked plane will matchmake according to the red marked plane to stop players abusing squads to bring in planes like the pe8 into ground forces.
Pros
Removed the ‘power up’ aspect of CAS that currently infects the mode. It is now a full featured role in the match, the air RB rule restriction of one life combined with the lack of need for ‘revenge’ or ground level knowledge of the flow of battle means players wont be able to come into the game and just suicide bomb units. Also the forced airfield spawn ensures that by the time aircraft arrive at the battlefield ground forces have dispersed enough to discourage bombing tanks coming out of spawn.
It balances CAS in that there is always a guaranteed opposition in the air that is equivalent at least in br to each other. ka 52 will not be able to run rampant if at least two F15s or equivalent is confirmed to be flying on the opposing side. A dynamic will develop for small scale air battles mixed with rapid CAS runs that should be an interesting and exciting match dynamic.
A manageable and clear set goal line for SPAA’s in terms of what they need to kill (they know there are 4 aircraft max and only need to shoot each one down once) and also the existence of support in the air. It will be a viable option to go SPAA first and help your own air force quickly win the air battle so they can fully support your team.
Because its a partial merge of two existing queues and uses the already existing join in progress feature, no need to split player bases or create queues by adding new matchmaking queues. In fact because there will always exist a default mode to fall back to this solution ensures no plane or tank is unable to find a match (except for helicopters, but personally I’d argue they should let helicopters into high tier Air RB anyway)
The marking of planes for special roles system also already exists in game, gaijin marked all bombers so that they would be limited in each match to 4 per team, so the feature does exist already just needs to be expanded.
Benefits air RB as well as ground forces as it removes a lot of ‘difficult’ planes from the matchmaker which have traditionally struggled in the air rb game mode (hs 129 etc)
Most of the changes are behind the curtain changes on gaijin’s end, so there is no requirement to introduce a new complicated game mechanic in match to manage planes. Players just choose if they are flying or tanking and if they are flying there is a high chance depending on the type of plane they picked that they could end up in a tank game playing CAS.
Option to opt out of the mode for pilots. If players dont want to ever fly CAS they can turn the join in progress feature off and fly every plane in standard air rb.
aircraft will always be BR appropriate for the match playing. No more ju87s flying in the cold war.
CONS
No mixed squads. Cant have a squad where 2 players are in tanks and 2 in aircraft
Helicopters could in ‘theory’ get trapped queuing forever if there is somehow a sudden collapse of players playing high tier ground forces (incredibly unlikely but I will flag it is a very distant chance).
No option to directly queue to fly air cover (i.e not as CAS but as a fighter protecting tanks other cas planes) in ground forces (unless certain fighters with multiple variants of the same type are given green markings, like for example one of the p51D variants could be marked green and others white. the P38J could be green while the P38L is white and the P38K is Red the bf109 f4 trop could be marked green while standard bf109 F4 is white etc)
I read all that.It was a long read but it’s interesting.
My take is simply this:
There is a much simpler and easier way.
1.Keep GRB as it is.
Zero changes.No nerfing of CAS, no spoiling the enjoyment of those like War Thunder as it is.We have a whole section of happy being .Good
2.Make a separate GRB with no aircraft in it.Zero CAS. I don’t care why anybody would want to play a GRB game with no aircraft in it .I only know that many do.
So you make a no CAS GRB as a new mode.A whole new set of happy people.Good
If people want to play both modes good.Nobody loses anything on either side of the coin and that is acknowledging that for many there is no coin ,we are one team playing one game in all it’s forms.
As everybody is quick to point out ,This game has a huge number of players still and has come a long way from what it used to be.I have seen interviews with Anton,Gaijin’s CEO and he does not want a new War thunder to compete with the old one but he is keen to move onward and hopefully upwards and this could be a way to do that.
My proposal would be to trial it for a month or two.It may be a success or it may fail but I imagine both the Devs and the player base would learn a lot about the game from it.What you can do with no aerial threat would be interesting.Staying on CAP would be an option for example.Maybe even towed semi static guns could be introduced like the UK 17 pdr or German 75mm.
SP guns with open crew would no doubt be more numerous as would the fast light MG vehicles , Rat tanks or even SPAA to hunt them.
TO could possibly become a game in its own right and have elements that standard GRB cannot accommodate due to the aerial threat.How you play would change,it would have to.
I think WT needs something like this.Many old vets are bored and many newbies frustrated.
Give it a go.
do you understand that the devs won’t do this, no matter how much you ask?
I don’t really care to be honest and I have asked them.
there is no need to nerf or buff anything just change some rules
As long as they allow GRB to be used for spading planes and helis nothing will change …far easier to enter braindead mode of spawning US/RU OP planes that are on wrong br and killing tanks than it is to kill plane in ARB.
You wan’t to get rid of planes/helis in GRB …petition Gaijin to reduce rewards for planes/helis in GRB and by that i mean nerf it into the ground.
Nothing else will drive away brainless ones .
You know how you can select night battles tab in the “Game Mode Select” there should be another tab that you can select that lets play ONLY ground. It should be titled “clear skies”
Like arcade but in realistic
The only aircraft that will be there are the Nuke plane, and recon micro’s
Force players to using fighters is always better than using spaa and doing nothing, now CAS is almost can’t be used, with over 700 SP and almost no chance to respawn a second time, and add a lot of advanced spaa to against WWII CAS, pretty balanced, and there are almost over 60% bad weather with UTL graphic cheater
Spading planes in GRB takes at least three times as long as spading them in ARB. If you go to a ground mode to spade aircraft, you are wasting a huge amount of time.
So I hate CAS. With a passion. So much I started going into my own custom missions with just spawning in ai planes. And practice shooting them down. A lot. And I’ve gotten really… Really… Really really good at shooting down planes. You can do everything pretty much perfect. I can snapfire a plane if it’s in range. But with the simple fact that your fire is highly visible and therefore avoidable with travel time, if they’re paying attention in the slightest, it’s impossible to shoot it down unless they are point blank range.
Even at point blank range, flying head on to kill you, with the delay in fire and impact, how slow ground vehicles are versus planes All In all, if they commit, killing you is guaranteed 90% of the time. Even if they are shot down in the process, it’s still benefits them to commit to taking you out. it’s so cheap suicide bombing is a viable tactic getting the kill plus all their time in the air, they will just respond another plane in there lineup. That’s faster than going back and having to land and rearm so, all it does is get more bombs into the fight faster for them.
I think planes should cost 200 to 250 points more,
I think you should be restricted one single plane in your lineup and ground realistic battles.
I think planes should not be able to spawn until the 5-minute mark. No reason someone should be able to get into a plane within the first 60 seconds.
Tracer visibility for ground cast needs to be either reduced from the air, eliminated, or round velocity needs to be improved. Increasing the in velocity by 200 to 300 m/s
I’d keep the base cost the same, but up the cost, and rebalance the cost of munitions instead of it being a flat increase.
I’d rather a limit of [X] planes up in the air per team at one time. If a player has enough SP to spawn another plane, they should be able to.
Agree.
I want to keep it realisitc, so no artificial velocity buffs.
I think CAP loadout planes (without guns that can destroy ground vehicles specificallly) should have an SP decrease. an F-15 with AMRAAMs and sidewinders with an air target belt should not be 900 spawn points… Also, limit how many aircraft can be spawned at once, if they’re carrying ground strike equipment.
The only change that I think needs to be made about CAS is the removal of air spawns, and addition of extra airfields around the map.
Forcing ground spawns will make it much harder to revenge bomb by increasing the amount of time that it takes to return to the battlefield.
In a fair number of cases, I really think that A2A only weaponry and air belts should reduce SP cost for aircraft. Maybe even change it so scout bonus is larger for a plane loaded to kill planes, and not tanks. It’s also still absurd that air belts incur the same SP penalty as anti-ground/HVAP belts for aircraft. That definitely should be fixed.
Just take the damn planes out of the game in GRB or leave them alone ,no middle ground.
Have one GRB with planes one without simple.
If you accept this game as having CAS then why do you want to nerf it ? All you guys telling us how CAS is needed and how we should all play WoT if we dont like CAS then you go on about how to nerf CAS because it ruins the game.Make your mind up.
Lets have the TO game as suggested a million times.
Nah, it is better to not have TO and then cry about air being nerfed because of unbalance.
Wanting alteration does not equal a “nerf”, nor does rebalancing and changes. Evolution is a positive and not a negative.
Wanting changes has nothing to do with asking for new modes. People for change does not equal support for new modes.
Topics on new modes has nothing to do with a rebalance topic; derailment helping no one.
Those asking for alterations are not Gaijin. Those saying no to a new mode are Gaijin.
Too much false equivalence is very unhelpful.
So are people helping or hindering? It is relatively clear who is hindering as per above points made.
The belief players = Gaijin is idiotic.
A perfect example of being against change, as argued before, in the above comments prior to mine.
@ULQ_LOVER you asked before to show when you have been against change, see your comment above.