Foob spotted, day improved
1 Like
1- Is in War Thunder.
2- Is in WT.
3- Is simulated.
4- Is in WT.
5- WT.
6- WT.
All you did was list War Thunder features.
@ZendikarHaven
1- Is in DCS.
2- Is in DCS.
3- Is in DCS.
4- Isn’t in DCS, but WT also has gunner’s optics as well so it doesn’t really matter.
5- Definitely in DCS.
6- The first part is in DCS.
6b- That’s realistic.
7- In DCS.
So by your own examples, you think DCS is “simcade” as well.
War Thunder is just an arcade game that models a few, specific aspects of real-life vehicles like armour thickness or gun penetration. But these aspects function based on simplified arcade mechanics that in no way simulate real physics.
1 Like
- Only in two modes, there is no option in Enlisted.
- Debatable how real the crew is, especially when they can’t dismount, use their cupolas, or man their machine guns properly. Only a few open tops have crew modeled visually because if they didn’t that would be really weird.
- Simulated isn’t the same as it actually happening.
- You don’t get to manually choose positions for crewmembers to move to in Warthunder.
- Crewmembers shift automatically in Warthunder.
- Show me the vehicles in Warthunder that the commander can pop out of his cupola.
Heres a bonus one, the vehicles have unique sights standard.
Another bonus one, I’m pretty sure the sights are forced perspective to the actual gunsight, not toggleable like Warthunder.
Your vehicle can fight to the last man. Not just the driver and gunner.
Enlisted is a superior “sim” when compared to Warthunder, definitely not “more arcade”. It has more features than the Simulation modes in Warthunder. The whole existence of Infantry allow the games vehicle combat to be more immersive and accurate. Not that either of them would ever be considered simulation games. Granted Warthunder is more real to life than World of Tanks is, but detailed models and a more realistic damage system doesn’t make Warthunder a sim.
Lmao - you sound like a BRAWNDO user:
Lots of people chimed in with lots of good ideas. Personally, I think a single change will make a lot of impact: 300 SP (equal to an MBT) for AA mission jets. If someone wants to bring an aircraft (fighter jet, CAS jet, heli) with AA loadout (manpads, guns, aam), then it should be as cheap as that. This promotes both sides to be very likely to have at least one or two patrolling aircrafts. The main purpose is that revenge CAS isn’t as straight forward anymore as they’d have to make sure the sky is safe first.
This would also affect the number of SPAA players. Most players avoid playing SPAA because it’s boring. It’s either the sky is full of CAS, or just cricket. With fighter jets costing cheap SP, they have something to worry about. Any time those fighters are neglectful of their flight path, they may die.
This one change is easy to implement (literally changing several variable values) and the impact would be more than enough to make CAS no longer a problem.
3 Likes
J-ing out should lose you all SP earned in that life.
Yes, you could find an enemy to kill you, but the goal isn’t to make it impossible, just less convenient. It also forces you to give SP to the enemy team and RP/SL/etc to another player.
More broadly, I’d like to see Ground adopt elements from Naval’s spawn and aircraft system: Remove SP for ground vehicles, reducing snowball effects and making SP easier to balance as it’s purely for planes, and add the “random plane” options for people who don’t have them researched.
Ah right, I had forgotten SB uses a fixed total SP pool, that would indeed be much better.
I put forth a suggestion thread with a spreadsheet that would rebalance the CAS spawn point requirements, and it was denied for wishlisting. I doubt that they are going to take any other types of suggestions regarding the SP cost balancing for aircraft. Just wanted to throw this out, because I don’t see them changing the current system anytime soon.
1 Like
I would love to see the fixed SP cost implemented in RB.
So your concept of realism came up again today sooo, I recorded the incident, prepared it in Adobe Premier pro and uploaded it to Youtube.
Since I don’t know if its really appropriate to splash a players name around for doing what the game permits, I won’t share the video link here but it is appropriate to share WT player experiences on Youtube. :)
Put simply, the player drove over the top of the map to get to our spawn immediately after the match started. Players where still streaming to the center of the map when he started killing them. We all ended up respawning and knowing the rough area where the player was, we all went hunting for them… And we found the player. The rest I had to go to replay to understand.
The player ducked under temporary cover, immediately appeared hundreds of feet in the air in a 4 engine bomber (how that for unrealistic trash) and began diving at those of us preparing to kill him. I could see the player release 3 bombs and then see the players aircrew bail out of the plane so the player could be in his tank when everyone died.
The player got credit for bomb kills and a number of awards all from the single bombing attack on his own tank. THAT is unrealistic trash! I followed the player afterwards. The same player tried two more times to make their way to the opposing spawn but now the middle of the map had players unlike the first time so in each attempt the player got killed in very short order.
This is a perfect example of one of the abuses of the CAS mechanism in matches and the reason these discussions keep coming up.
FF concept was already discussed and it was proven that it will only make ground gameplay worse.
And no, just because air will be from the beginning doesn’t mean that it is up to team to balance it as the same argument can be said now. The only change it brings is the worse situation for people wanting to just play ground units (aka tanks, as at low B.R. clean fighters can deal with almost any ground unit, not to mention panthers dying to 20mm etc. doesn’t need to be anti-ground belt. Not even mentioning open-tops).
FF concept is only good for people wanting to use air in combined mode, not for people who want to play tanks.
3 Likes
And the argument is gone because the introduction of FF doesn’t change anything when it comes to the problem described by people playing tanks. It just makes the issue even worse for ground players.
In naval it works because naval has AI AA.
1 Like
For people driving a tank it doesn’t.
Then, at most B.R. they die to clean fighters who could spawn from the beginning, not to mention airspawn/airfield being blocked.
Again, nothing gets changed for people wanting to play tanks. The problem becomes even bigger for them.
As long as You want to lie about it being a solution for this people, sure.
1 Like
As long as Your ‘solution’ for people wanting to play ‘tanks’ is to play something else, it is not a solution.
As long as You can’t understand it, we will have more nerfs/buffs that only makes people mad. I know that You don’t want TO to be added because ‘hate’ reasons, but it is the only solution that would allow for combined mode to change and become better.
1 Like
And that is what makes You unable to understand the problem.
Thanks for proving that there is no point in having a discussion with You about said topic as You don’t want a solution but rather something else.
1 Like
It takes all the people who just want to play tanks out of the question.
Preatty simple fix and changes a lot.
Cope.
Thanks again for proving that You don’t want any good change but rather a ‘solution’ that will only give You a tool to say ‘YOU ALREADY HAVE THAT YOU CAN’T HAVE TO NOW!!!’.
1 Like
The only thing dividing it is lack of such a mode.
Maps doesn’t need change.
Let me guess, not adding a TO as people wanted and providing changes no one asked for made things worse for everybody? Like I said and still saying?
Who would have guessed that You are still trying to do the same thing.
As I have said, You are just angry about what Gaijin have done and about what no one asked for and can’t think properly. Not to mention the attitude of ‘game bad for me, must be bad for You’!
But I don’t suspect nothing from MH4UAstragon who on old forum was the same ;) (not to mention that Your ‘solutions’ were discussed on old forum and already proven wrong, same goes for discord).
1 Like
Squadron Battles function like this - sounds great in theory, in reality you get first spawn Pe8s, Tu2s, and Arado 234s rushing at spawn.
Actually, it does - no CAS, no problems.
And since they’d have their own mode, the “combined arms” mode can be changed at will to the whims of people wanting to destroy targets that can’t do shit to them.
Hey remember when gaijin made Air RB midmap AA kill anything that got within 3km of it?
According to you, Air RB players should just have queued up in ground attackers and dealt with it themselves instead of asking gaijin to fix an obviously problematic and unfun feature.
arcade/realistic/simulator, enough said
Yep which is why the Lancaster got a shiny new 12000lb bomb and the Pe8’s BR hasn’t moved an inch in years.
Which they deserve, because aircraft are fundamentally unbalanced.
If I’m in say, a 190 F8, an already not great attacker, I can easily bomb tanks and shoot down just about anything that flies. I don’t need to J out and switch to another vehicle to do either of those things.
If I’m in a tank and I want to shoot down someone because they might bomb me, I need to:
-J out and throw away my tank;
-spawn an SPAA;
-maybe shoot him down, maybe die to him because open tops and bomb/rocket overpressure (but let’s assume I succeed);
-J out and throw away my SPAA because SPAAs are not tanks and they both can’t and SHOULD NOT fulfill the same role as a tank, just so I can influence the ground battle positively.
Clearly there’s an imbalance here and there’s no amount of SPAAs getting HVAP (and subsequently getting overtiered for it) or first spawn aircraft that is gonna fix it.
You highlight the point nicely.
A team of random players all hoping to play using the vehicles they need to work with in order to advance their trees or grinding goals cannot happen. They must consider abandoning the play style they prefer and their choice of vehicle. Simply put, they must all abandon their personal needs and preferences to launch aircraft and SPAAs. In other words, the match just became an air/anti-air battle with a few tanks for to give the planes something to kill for points. It became Air AB.
- How are you going to manage a team of complete strangers who have come together for a 15 minute match to make them do only what you think they should do?
- How does this remain as a game where you can enjoy playing the vehicles you like while a single unknown individual is ordering everyone to play only the vehicles they deem correct for the team?
- How does a person who is only playing the game for tanks advance their tree if other random players won’t let them play the vehicles they need to play in order to advance? Perhaps you feel tanks are a secondary part of the game and tankers should leave and go to World of Tanks.
And Finally… - How do you get the random team of strangers to do all of these things without attacking their choices and making them do what they don’t want to?
As I said, you highlight the point very nicely. Planes force the battle to become an air/Anti-air battle. I know War Thunder started as a flight game and it seems its trying to feed into its flight family here more than trying to keep to the nature of the battle type. I’m new so I’ve never tried launching a tank or an SPAA in Air RB/AB like you can launch planes in Ground RB/AB. I should try that. If I can’t, I know the flight game play is the focus here and I’m in the wrong game.
I see your idea being meaningful in a squad vs squad type of game play and perhaps that’s the answer. Vehicle specific game play for grinding and those who just want the one type and the complete mix for squads where vehicle use can be ordered or mandated.
Either way, You’re right, if your going to add planes to Ground battles, you might as well call it air because, to your point, you HAVE TO have air suppression or the tanks just become free RP for the pilots while the tank players just get repair bills.
P.S. Earlier in this thread I raised the concern that pilots in Ground battles received Tank RP. A respondent indicated this wasn’t true. I just watched the “Ground Vehicles” Tutorial on the War Thunder site in the Tutorials section where it seemed to indicate that planes used in Ground battles only receive tank RP. Either I’ve misunderstood something or perhaps the game has changed since that tutorial video was posted. There is a third possibility of course…
1 Like