Minor note-
In AB you can get ground RP from CAS. (Tbh I like this though, it makes grinding stock viecles a bit better, especially light tanks.)
I would love 40mms getting APDS tbh.
Might make some upside for the Lvkv 42’s lack of ammo.
Indeed.
SPAA usefulness is entirely depending on if there are aircraft around or not. If there aren’t, you’re stuck being basically useless because SPAA are NOT tanks, they can’t fulfill that role.
Give them all HVAP and you’re gonna have a lot of SPAA becoming worse at doing their job because their BRs have been inflated by said HVAP and the ability to murder tanks easily, which is also something that most players HATE.
Hence why this:
…wouldn’t work either - the Ostwind would suck as a 5.3 SPAA. If I wanted to shoot planes down, there is zero reason for me to bring that out instead of the much better Ostwind 2, currently 5.0. I don’t need HVAP to do my job.
Being able to spawn an SPAA as a secondary vehicle would fix SPAAs being basically dead weight if the enemy team simply chooses to only bring tanks, would encourage players to actually use SPAA since they don’t need to ditch their already spawned in and positioned tank, and would keep them effective at their job since they wouldn’t go up in BR well past their usefulness - also, Bofors HE-VT didn’t exist for a damn good while, certainly not in time for the swedish SPAAs, thus adding it is fictional at best. Others like the Ostwinds or the ZSU-37 never had any.
This is completely different, there’s always ground targets to shoot at. Planes, just by virtue of their much higher spawn costs, will always be rarer.
SPAA rewards will always be low because such gameplay results in low battle activity %, which is very impactful on earnings and really discourages SPAA use - if you’re in one and the skies aren’t busy, you’re basically burning credits.
I can see this working but would need a couple rounds of public beta testing, which gaijin seems to hate.
Add Hellfire L
Give CIWS to NATO
Correctly implement AHEAD
Fix Hellfire flight profile
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SPAA as a secondary viecle is stupid, not to mention a massive change to the norm (And would make a lot of people pretty angry, especially if it impacted SPAA already ingame)
Im going to repeat a point I made over in the BR change discussion:
We simply need to start making decisions on how to balance SPAA. Do we balance off antitank capability, or off of antiair capability.
Honestly imo it should depend on the vehicle, stuff like the L-62 ANTI II and other such 40mm barges that lack proxy should be balanced off the AT role, with a secondary SPAA role. (The same goes for the Lvkv, etc.)
Wheras more dedicated SPAA should be more balanced off their SPAA role. (Missile SPAAs, etc.)
limit the number of Planes per team not more then 3 air crafts can fly, its impossible to counter hordes of CASholes , most german tanks dont even have roof mounted MGs specially Rank 3
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How would it make people angry? They can now counter planes (which the target audience complains a lot about) without throwing away the tank they were using.
Remember that I’m not saying free SPAA, it should still cost SP to spawn in. You simply don’t have to throw away your tank, spawn an SPAA, shoot a plane down, and then have to throw away your vehicle AGAIN to get back in a tank and go capture a point or something.
It’s always gonna be a combination of the two. Having a ZSU-57-2 at like 4.0 because its bad at shooting aircraft, or pretty much any missile SPAA going down to reserve tier because they’re often outright unable to kill tanks are both counterproductive ideas.
It’s always gonna be a combination of the two. Having a ZSU-57-2 at like 4.0 because its bad at shooting aircraft, or pretty much any missile SPAA going down to reserve tier because they’re often outright unable to kill tanks are both counterproductive ideas.
I addressed this- some would be balanced off AA, some off AT (i.e. ZSU would probably be balanced off AT)
That’s pretty much what we have now, though. Falcons and ZSU-57-2s rarely try to shoot aircraft, so they’re largely balanced off of that.
The Duster just went down in BR as well - though none of the hilariously overpowered swedish low tier SPAA went up, wonder what’s up with that.
L-62 went up to 3.0, none of the others are OP imo.
Lvkv 42 is just bad though (gib apds when)
The SAP on them is stupid broken. 40mm shell produces more spall than 75mm ones.
SAP moment.
Doesnt do much for the Lvkv, given its poor ammo capacity.
APDS wouldn’t help there, but you’d have a shiny new 6.0 SPAA instead lol
True, and I wouldnt mind that. Iirc it also could get HE-VT which would be… interesting.
Make them pick their poison - SPAA with HVAP/sabot or CAS. Force them to realize that nobody gets absolutely everything they want.
I am here advocating for something that annoys me from time to time - SPAAG spamming HVAP - because I see continuation of the endless bickering about CAS as far more damaging to the game at large and needing to be put down at its whiny TO supporter heart sooner rather than later.
I too get quite frustrated when an AA track-&-barrel tortures me. I am very much aware that making SPAAG actually competent at anti-tank ability will make them do that a lot more. But its still worth it in my eyes if average joes bother using AA more frequently and actually moving into good positions to surprise incoming CAS.
With the same shell the Ostwind II would probably go up somewhat, albeit not nearly as dramatically because it has only more of the same guns, not any better pen. Probably 5.7 at least.
Being able to swap to AA whenever the user wants from any point on the map totally eliminates the opportunity cost of AA - and it opens up a very slippery slope towards arguments of why that concept can’t be extended to other unit classes as well. You cannot have a do-everything vehicle - yet having an AA in your back pocket at all times effectively makes you one.
Even with the added antitank rounds, SPAAGs other than the Skink (which has no better antitank rounds AFAIK), Kugelblitz, and Coelian still will get slaughtered by nearly anything they frontally run into. The whole point of adding such belts is not to enable them to frontally melt stuff - its to punish overconfident opponents in flanking maneuvers, which many AAs currently lack the pen to be able to do reliably, such as the Ostwind II and Coelian now for instance.
It’s not really all that much different conceptually. Suppose you spawn a heavy tank with your “pocket AA” idea. You go on a rampage because you get a good map and a bit of luck. Before long the buzzers start to swarm in. Then you can seamlessly swap to AA, as can potentially a large portion of your team to fire at the CAS en masse, after which you swap back to your tanks and resume like nothing happened.
Having “back pocket AA” effectively means you remove nearly all penalty of tanks against anything airborne.
And that concept of seamless switching could easily be extended to other vehicle classes by other vocal users once you open that floodgate towards one unit type. That sort of logic is another reason I do not really support TO initiatives - it would empower other equally extreme subsections of the playerbase to chant endlessly for their “exclusionist mode.” With less reason why the next group can’t have it, too. Do you not see the sort of snowball effect that could easily result with your idea?
They did somewhat recently test out long range air to air missiles, and several months back also WWII submarines. So snail clearly is capable of doing public beta testing if they desire it.
Careful - it’s not a stupid idea, but the guy doesn’t seem to realize just how fine of a slippery slope it is. The exact same argument of “but their X counters my Y! Y should be able to be swapped to at any time, just like AA can!” would then be able to carry quite a bit of weight. It’s not a good idea to pursue for that reason.
It’s a well-intentioned, if poorly-thought-out idea, on par with Tank-Only Mode. The guy behind it certainly isn’t stupid.
My two cents here is that each needs to use a mix of both. Technically speaking the Russian and Israeli ZSU-57/2s could be given the Chinese proxy fuse shell for balance reasons to make it suddenly not quite as bad of an AA, for example.
Currently where they sit, the L-62, M19s, various 37-40mm barge trucks, etc etc have no need for either APCR/APDS nor HE-VT. The lead marker alone would be enough for those.
Glad to see you at least kinda understand my reasoning.
SPAAG die to tanks on a regular basis, and are generally unfun to play much of the time because of this since frequently they cannot even pen the side or rear of many opponents, let alone the front. Thus while they would obviously die to smart enemies, currently they can’t even do more than scratch the paint of stupid opponents. No wonder people sit in their own spawns uselessly in them!
My tanks KDR has gone up when I drive all the way to enemy spawn to kill SPAAs who sat there lol it has become a habit, when you are there you will stealth kill even more second or third-spawn SPAAs, they are like free foods, the only thing that I felt sorry is their team will get f by CAS if not one of them spawn a fighter.
I can only laugh at times when I first-spawn AA and catch multiple T-34s totally off guard.
Also, we’re missing the best SPAA…
The Swedish 120mm autoloader’s HE shell is supposed to be HE-VT apparently…