If you could, how would you re-balance CAS in Ground Battles?

[Wrath_Phoenix]

So tank only mode when?

[EstrogenPnZr-psn]

No it’s not lol

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Beeschurger

Because?

You gave no evidence or reasoning for your original claim. Claims made without evidence can be refuted without evidence.

@Beeschurger

See the dunes example.

Refer to my earlier point of, if you’re not near cover, you’re using it wrong.

Or at the very least, don’t whine about being sniped or bombed if you do drive out in the open.

@Beeschurger

People living in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.

Take your own advice. You come to the forums whining about CAS, yet everyone who doesn’t struggle against CAS is simply bad at the game?

@ParryACO-psn

There’s so many maps where you can have cover from enemy fire and be completely exposed to getting a bomb dropped on your skull.

It’s hard to spot enemies from 2+ miles away, even with a bird’s eye view. Most CAS players rely one:

• Scout and hit markers

• Checking regular paths drove by tanks

• Quick scanning open fields

• Checking spawn

I do think planes should only be able to see scout and hit markers against SPAA, however even right now, you can completely evade 75% of ways CAS can spot you. Even when you are spotted, a lot of people underestimate the power of moving a few feet.

You don’t need cover that makes you impossible to bomb, you just need cover that doesn’t place you exactly where CAS players expect your team to be.

[Beeschurger]

@Pangolin_Fan

You gave no evidence or reasoning for your original claim. Claims made without evidence can be refuted without evidence.

@Beeschurger

position can offer cover against tanks but not against plane that has altitude and thus can look over the cover.

For example, sand dunes.

seems like reasoning with an example.

@Pangolin_Fan

if you’re not near cover, you’re using it wrong.

I know you might struggle with this, so let me help you. Issue of aviability of cover =/= issue of using the cover. If no cover providing protection or at least concealment from aircraft exists in the first place, it cannot be used.

Or are you disputing fact that aircraft can see over terrain that blocks ground line of sight?

@Pangolin_Fan

Or at the very least, don’t whine about being sniped or bombed if you do drive out in the open.

Profile - Pangolin_Fan - War Thunder — official forum Quite interesting claim from someone with your post history.

@Pangolin_Fan

You come to the forums whining about CAS, yet everyone who doesn’t struggle against CAS is simply bad at the game?

interesting statement considering you have previously argued that SPAA is oppressive.

also not my position so have fun attacking it, i suppose.

EDIT: False flagging wont work, Pangolin.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Beeschurger

seems like reasoning with an example.

Not really. You’re just making blatantly false statements then trying to pass them as true with no reasoning.

@Beeschurger

I know you might struggle with this, so let me help you. Issue of aviability of cover =/= issue of using the cover. If no cover providing protection or at least concealment from aircraft exists in the first place, it cannot be used.

All maps have cover, so we circle back to the original issue that you’re not using cover correctly.

@Beeschurger

Quite interesting claim from someone with your post history.

@Beeschurger

interesting statement considering you have previously argued that SPAA is oppressive.

I did not call “SPAA” oppressive. I make have called some individual vehicles like the Yak-9K or Gepard oppressive, but not “SPAA.”

You know you have no argument, so you’re just trying to argue with things never said.

[ULQ_LOVER]

@Pangolin_Fan

All maps have cover, so we circle back to the original issue that you’re not using cover correctly.

What map allows me to hide from planes in a way that he can’t attack me from any angle?

[Beeschurger]

@Pangolin_Fan

Not really. You’re just making blatantly false statements then trying to pass them as true with no reasoning.

Appropriated it for you, hopefully it will help you understand what is being argued.

@Pangolin_Fan

All maps have cover, so we circle back to the original issue that you’re not using cover correctly.

You keep conflating the existence of cover with the existence of cover that counters CAS. Terrain that blocks ground vehicle line of sight does not automatically protect against CAS at altitude.

Once again, please refer to the picture.

@Pangolin_Fan

I did not call “SPAA” oppressive. I make have called some individual vehicles like the Yak-9K or Gepard oppressive, but not “SPAA.”

Gepard is a SPAA.

[Pangolin_Fan]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[Beeschurger]

@Pangolin_Fan

the problem is you’re sitting out in the open.

The diagram is specifically showing a vehicle behind cover.

@Pangolin_Fan

Then don’t stand out in the open. There’s only a couple of maps with primarily dunes for cover, and even those few have rocks and buildings.

A rock or building existing on the map does not automatically mean it provides protection against aircraft. Aircraft can change direction or even altittude and attack directly from above.

@Pangolin_Fan

Thank you for supporting my argument that I called a particular vehicle oppressive, and not every vehicle of class.

Gepard being an SPAA supports that you have made that argument about SPAA vehicles; it does not prove that your only example was Gepard. Moreso, Gepard isnt unique as SPAA, more SPAAs use similiar ammo and guns.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Beeschurger

The diagram is specifically showing a vehicle behind cover.

A vehicle out in the open that happens to have a hill between it and some other tank. By your standard, a tank sitting exactly where it spawned on Sands of Sinai would be “behind cover.”

@Beeschurger

A rock or building existing on the map does not automatically mean it provides protection against aircraft.

Actually it does. If you’re not scouted/marked, and not somewhere CAS obviously expects you to be, then you’re not gonna be spotted.

@Beeschurger

Gepard being an SPAA

Means nothing. The Kv-7 and Hetzer are too strong, but that doesn’t mean I think all tank destroyers are too strong.

[Crazed_Otter]

Gen question - do you actually play the same game the rest of the planet do - or do you mainly spend your time crayoning on the forums? I think EVERY take you come out with is so catastrophically wrong - that I think we need to coin a new rule expressly for you:

I vote we call it the:

PANGOLIN REVERSE ANSWER TRUISM

Whatever Pangolin says - the actual objectively correct answer is the opposite…

Rest of Planet - Is the Sky Blue?
Pangolin - NO!
Rest of Planet - Okay then it’s obviously blue.

[Beeschurger]

@Pangolin_Fan

A vehicle out in the open that happens to have a hill between it and some other tank. By your standard, a tank sitting exactly where it spawned on Sands of Sinai would be “behind cover.”

If your argument is that sand dune on Sinai spawn does not count as cover because it does not protect against CAS, then you are effectively agreeing with my original point, that being terrain that protects against tanks does not necessarily protect against aircraft.

Well thank you, didnt know we would agree.

@Pangolin_Fan

Actually it does. If you’re not scouted/marked, and not somewhere CAS obviously expects you to be, then you’re not gonna be spotted.

talk about moving a goalpost. we moved from protection to not being spotted. Concealment and forcing the enemy to search are not equivalent to actual protection. The existence of cover that helps you avoid detection does not mean the cover counters CAS in the same way it counters ground vehicles.

@Pangolin_Fan

Means nothing. The Kv-7 and Hetzer are too strong, but that doesn’t mean I think all tank destroyers are too strong.

The difference is that KV-7 and Hetzer being strong does not imply other TDs that massively vary in terms of guns, armor and mobility are strong as a class overall.

[Wrath_Phoenix]

@Beeschurger

All maps have cover

This has got to be satire.
Of course THEY DON’T. Are you blind or something?

What about this one? The version which is only the bottom half of this map?
Where is the cover that you can hide behind and stay out of cas sight?
Make it make sense.
How can you hide in this map?
DO NOT tell me the area in the middle where there is a gate and a tower.

[Beeschurger]

Well obviously youre meant to drive to A, B and its general area or C anytime aircraft appears, positioning be damned. /s

[Wrath_Phoenix]

Hey everyone, he is blind confirmed.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Beeschurger

If your argument is that sand dune on Sinai spawn does not count as cover because it does not protect against CAS, then you are effectively agreeing with my original point, that being terrain that protects against tanks does not necessarily protect against aircraft.

If you think that sitting out in the open is “cover,” then I think that explains why you struggle so much against CAS.

@Beeschurger

talk about moving a goalpost. we moved from protection to not being spotted.

Actually we didn’t move anywhere. Not being spotted is literally the second layer of the survivability onion.

@Beeschurger

The difference is that KV-7 and Hetzer being strong does not imply other TDs that massively vary in terms of guns, armor and mobility are strong as a class overall.

Exactly.

@Wrath_Phoenix

Are you blind or something?

Map with tons of rocks, overhangs, and buildings
Fail to spot cover anywhere

To answer your question, yes. Yes you are.

@Wrath_Phoenix

The version which is only the bottom half of this map?

Then instead of whining about CAS, just advocate for that map version to be removed. I don’t like it either.

[Beeschurger]

@Pangolin_Fan

If you think that sitting out in the open is “cover,” then I think that explains why you struggle so much against CAS.

You are not addressing the point being made.

@Pangolin_Fan

Actually we didn’t move anywhere. Not being spotted is literally the second layer of the survivability onion.

You moved the goalpost from cover to concealment without adressint the cover issues.

@Pangolin_Fan

Exactly.

The difference is that KV-7 and Hetzer are unusual examples within TDs as a whole. Gepard is not an outlier among SPAA at its BR.

[Wrath_Phoenix]

@Pangolin_Fan

To answer your question, yes. Yes you are.

Find me a single viable hiding spot in the following maps:

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Beeschurger

You are not addressing the point being made.

You seemed to be saying that standing out in the open is considered, to you, standing in cover.

I’m saying it isn’t.

@Beeschurger

You moved the goalpost from cover to concealment

It was always about concealment, even though we were referring to it as cover. My argument has always been that cover keeps you from being spotted, it never changed.

@Beeschurger

The difference is that KV-7 and Hetzer are unusual examples within TDs as a whole. Gepard is not an outlier among SPAA at its BR.

Saying I’m trying to say all SPAA are OP cause I consider the Gepards OP, when the Gepards are mostly identical against CAS, is just bad faith.

@Wrath_Phoenix

Find me a single viable hiding spot in the following maps:

Refer to my previous point.

@Pangolin_Fan

Then instead of whining about CAS, just advocate for that map version to be removed. I don’t like it either.

[Wrath_Phoenix]

@Pangolin_Fan

Refer to my previous point.

I do not because you’re not making sense. Why would I hide form cas? Why does my gameplay have to work around stay hidden from cas? Why would I ask for these beautiful maps to go away?
Why not fix the actual issue? that is cas itself and having to face it in a tank that does not shoot up with missiles and doesn’t have radar?

Why does cas get to always win this one-sided thing? because they have bombs and missiles and the tanks don’t. Don’t you see the complete one-sided issue?
You my friend are blind too.