Appropriated it for you, hopefully it will help you understand what is being argued.
You keep conflating the existence of cover with the existence of cover that counters CAS. Terrain that blocks ground vehicle line of sight does not automatically protect against CAS at altitude.
Once again, please refer to the picture.
Gepard is a SPAA.
The diagram is specifically showing a vehicle behind cover.
A rock or building existing on the map does not automatically mean it provides protection against aircraft. Aircraft can change direction or even altittude and attack directly from above.
Gepard being an SPAA supports that you have made that argument about SPAA vehicles; it does not prove that your only example was Gepard. Moreso, Gepard isnt unique as SPAA, more SPAAs use similiar ammo and guns.
A vehicle out in the open that happens to have a hill between it and some other tank. By your standard, a tank sitting exactly where it spawned on Sands of Sinai would be “behind cover.”
Actually it does. If you’re not scouted/marked, and not somewhere CAS obviously expects you to be, then you’re not gonna be spotted.
Means nothing. The Kv-7 and Hetzer are too strong, but that doesn’t mean I think all tank destroyers are too strong.
Gen question - do you actually play the same game the rest of the planet do - or do you mainly spend your time crayoning on the forums? I think EVERY take you come out with is so catastrophically wrong - that I think we need to coin a new rule expressly for you:
I vote we call it the:
PANGOLIN REVERSE ANSWER TRUISM
Whatever Pangolin says - the actual objectively correct answer is the opposite…
Rest of Planet - Is the Sky Blue?
Pangolin - NO!
Rest of Planet - Okay then it’s obviously blue.
If your argument is that sand dune on Sinai spawn does not count as cover because it does not protect against CAS, then you are effectively agreeing with my original point, that being terrain that protects against tanks does not necessarily protect against aircraft.
Well thank you, didnt know we would agree.
talk about moving a goalpost. we moved from protection to not being spotted. Concealment and forcing the enemy to search are not equivalent to actual protection. The existence of cover that helps you avoid detection does not mean the cover counters CAS in the same way it counters ground vehicles.
The difference is that KV-7 and Hetzer being strong does not imply other TDs that massively vary in terms of guns, armor and mobility are strong as a class overall.
This has got to be satire.
Of course THEY DON’T. Are you blind or something?
What about this one? The version which is only the bottom half of this map?
Where is the cover that you can hide behind and stay out of cas sight?
Make it make sense.
How can you hide in this map?
DO NOT tell me the area in the middle where there is a gate and a tower.
Well obviously youre meant to drive to A, B and its general area or C anytime aircraft appears, positioning be damned. /s
Hey everyone, he is blind confirmed.
If you think that sitting out in the open is “cover,” then I think that explains why you struggle so much against CAS.
Actually we didn’t move anywhere. Not being spotted is literally the second layer of the survivability onion.
Exactly.
Map with tons of rocks, overhangs, and buildings
Fail to spot cover anywhere
To answer your question, yes. Yes you are.
Then instead of whining about CAS, just advocate for that map version to be removed. I don’t like it either.
You are not addressing the point being made.
You moved the goalpost from cover to concealment without adressint the cover issues.
The difference is that KV-7 and Hetzer are unusual examples within TDs as a whole. Gepard is not an outlier among SPAA at its BR.
Find me a single viable hiding spot in the following maps:
You seemed to be saying that standing out in the open is considered, to you, standing in cover.
I’m saying it isn’t.
It was always about concealment, even though we were referring to it as cover. My argument has always been that cover keeps you from being spotted, it never changed.
Saying I’m trying to say all SPAA are OP cause I consider the Gepards OP, when the Gepards are mostly identical against CAS, is just bad faith.
Refer to my previous point.
I do not because you’re not making sense. Why would I hide form cas? Why does my gameplay have to work around stay hidden from cas? Why would I ask for these beautiful maps to go away?
Why not fix the actual issue? that is cas itself and having to face it in a tank that does not shoot up with missiles and doesn’t have radar?
Why does cas get to always win this one-sided thing? because they have bombs and missiles and the tanks don’t. Don’t you see the complete one-sided issue?
You my friend are blind too.
You complain about how CAS operates on a specific map, I say that instead of complaining about CAS you should complain about the map. What there is confusing?
youre responding to argument no one made. what was said, and i quote:
You are now redefining cover as concealment after the fact. Rocks and buildings are not examples of mere concealment, they are hard cover. They can physically block damage. You cannot redefine cover as concealment after citing rocks and buildings as examples. Trees are concealment. Buildings and rocks are often hard cover because they physically stop weapons.
so you agree with me? weird.
you are treating a representative example of a broader capability as if it were a unique outlier. Gepard capabilities are not unique at that BR range.
I can only think of one map but I don’t remember the name of it but it has the mall right next to B.
And it severely limits your ability to engage other tanks.
I’m going to reveal somethings very troubling to you that you have never heard of, which makes all your arguments, empty.
Ready?
FPV drones, scouting, sense of hearing, normal targeting pods and pods with thermal sight, TV guided and IR guided missiles and bombs.
How exactly do you hide from all these?
The drone sees you and scouts you, light tanks scout you, any tank can hear your engine noise and mark your position on the minimap for their cas friend to rain hell on, your position is compromised very reliably and easily by pilots looking through their targeting pods while flying above the entire map, let alone the ones with thermal sight and the missiles and bombs are the same as mentioned pods.
Therefore you are REVEALED to cas and there is actually NOTHING you can do about all of these. These things are out of your control.
I agree that CAS shouldn’t see scout markers except against SPAA.
Planes can’t hear tanks unless very close.
Targeting pods are only useful atlong range, which goes against the earlier argument of CAS being able to simply maneuver around buildings and cover to see tanks.
Minimap marks rarely summon CAS from my experience.
Imo it’s very fair for CAS to bomb someone who was marked by a map marker.
Doomer mentality will never help you.
You keep changing the claim from ‘cover against tanks’ to ‘cover against everything.’ That is not how cover works.
Then you quite literally admit to being misleading. On top of being wrong, as buildings and rocks are often hard cover as they physically stop weapons.
You are moving between two different claims.
is not the same as
The point was that you have argued that SPAA vehicles are oppressive, specifically the Gepard family. Your own clarification confirms that. As such, you have also come to the forums to argue that certain mechanics/vehicles are problematic. Which makes this reponse
straight irony, since you are dismissing any argument about CAS as ‘whining about CAS’ because people consider it a problematic mechanic, while you have done the exact same thing regarding vehicles such as Gepard and its clones.
Did I even mention planes hearing you? Read the damn essay I wrote.
No, we all agree that not according to a blind man like you, targeting pods are very useful so stop making things up. Pods are very good you seriously have to stop saying non-sense.
There is a Request for air backup message in the T menu. Again, STOP MAKING THINGS UP.
Oh you deserve to get bombed 5 seconds after you leave spawn, every time.
Being delusional has not helped you at all lemme tell you.
