This brings us to the previous point.
Spawning AA first just so you don’t get killed in an unfair way defeats the purpose of playing tanks.
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Tanks have far more potential kills than planes. The reason planes cost more is because they simply has less risk, under certain circumstances. If players were smart enough to spawn CAP, then that would negate the entire advantage that comes with 500 sp added to spawn cost.
Yes, in rank 1-2, favor is towards CAS. In rank 3-6, favor is heavily towards SPAA. In rank 7-8, favor is again towards CAS.
That can be solved by simply lowering the airspawn and moving airfields to prop distance in early jet BRs.
It already takes a while to get to the battlefield, especially with uptiers at 6.7. The only time having intel about the battlefield about the battlefield from a previous life matters to aircraft is if som1 is camping, which in that case they 100% deserve a good bombing.
It also increases the chances of som1 spawning a plane, and the game ending b4 they reach the battlefield, which is a bigger issue, and also increases the amount of time that you’re just flying in a straight line, thus making CAS more boring.
The simply solution is increasing SP cost.
I have one big argument against it.
Copy paste, or "Is that an american B-25j, a russian B-25j or a chinese B-25j?"
At least in sim you can usually rely on your team communicating their position to make IFF judgements about copy-paste black silhouettes (none of my team’s b-25s did in this example). I very much doubt you could acquire such for GRB given shorter matches and communication issues.
And I can’t imagine it to be much better for ground vehicles either, especially given match-ups are far less consistent (ergo you get america versus britain and whatnot). It’s… Sherman. On top of a sherman. Shooting a sherman. While running from a sherman (a cursory search gives me SIX countries with a 3.7 sherman)
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So I read what you wrote.All of it.I asked and you answered .Well most of it.
I have to ask though, If you want to ruin the game to that extent for CAS players then why not simply remove CAS form the GRB game and make a new game with no CAS while leaving the old game as it is?
How high? They keep raising them.It is a combined arms game so why take make the planes hard to get in a game where the makers and even the players want to fly?
A single cap and a kill is a dream to many on here : ) Again ,it’s combined arms so lets combine arms,at the start the middle and the end.
Wow ,sounds like fun lol really so we all waste our Five minute GRB game flying to a battle to drop one bomb on a tank that may be invulnerable due to spawn protection?
Is that what people play War Thunder to do? Take out most of the game flying to the game?
Moved? Where to in a game that now features no cover and tiny maps or larger maps with huge areas on a red zone time out?
The whole idea of CAS is meant to be to remove those who are out there causing trouble from hard to reach areas.
Again all about removing planes from the game without committing to actually removing planes from the game.Just remove planes from the game : )
That old chestnut.Well it’s only been 12 years.Maybe in another 12 we will have SPAA that can empty the skies but again if you signed up for combined arms then why drive planes out of the game? How strong do you want SPAA?
In reality planes don’t fly where SPAA is heavy.It’s suicide and commanders wont commit to that.They dont like writing letters to widows and joking aside it will ruin the game.Don’t you ever wonder if you are actually living in the days of balance already? Or maybe those days have gone but still we all scream for balance.
At what point will the GRB game be balanced? Has it ever been in 12 years?
Why do that in planes made to take out tanks with impunity from miles away.
I have seen helis at work and you dial them up and they fire from behind a hill at a target painted by a man with a laser or pop up, fire and get back down.They don’t charge in like Rambo anymore.
You guys begged for modern warfare and you sure got it : ) Wow my tank is redundant ,who would have thought.
Sorry bro I am not by any means having a go at you.I knew in advance what you were going to put .It’s the same old story often repeated so many times and mostly by those who actually defend the combined arms game and shout down a CAS free GRB option.
I call for a GRB game with no planes. I don’t want to see planes nerfed to death like every other aspect of this game. If Gaijin cant make them work then try removing them , see if they can save top tier that way.It would be a start.
The reason the Allies did so well in the Iraq was because the decimated the enemies tanks with Aircraft, annihilated them and with hardly any comeback.
Most of the tanks we encountered were empty or probably empty,the crews had fled,we blew them up anyway just to be sure.
That is what happens when you put the cat among the pigeons and its what you can expect when you put Helicopters and A10s in a tank game but God how you guys begged Gaijin to do it.
The only solution I have ever seen was to at least offer people a break from CAS and the only way is to make a game with no CAS.
You can try it once or play it forever more but only if you have the choice.The game is old and possible dying so what does it matter?
Edits:many : )
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Oh don’t get me wrong I would definitively enjoy a CAS free gamemode, but that’s just a pipe dream at this point as Gaijin has shown multiple times that they have no intentions of ever adding one which is why I’ve sorta given up and defaulted to trying to at least make it a lot more balanced towards the ground side of GRB by limiting CAS in a way without directly nerfing the planes in question but more so the way they are played in GRB.
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The runways being close doesn’t just make CAS easier, but it makes doing CAP harder.
You can’t really have a fight because of you go 2km away from the battlefield, you’ll be wrecked by AA. It also gives CAS an easy way to get good cover.
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I know they wont do it and I get where you are coming from.I can’t see the sense in not doing it.If the new game was a huge runaway success and killed combined arms GRB then Gaijin would still own it.The game has always changed as we are always being told when we complain about change.It seems to be Gaijin that are afraid of making changes that would help the game but seem to be keen on making changes that ruin the game.
At least a CAS free GRB would be a player choice.
Money. The answer is always money.
Premiums are mainly grinding vehicles (MiG-23ML, F-4S, Leo 2A4 123 etc) and fun nieche vehicles that they don’t want to lock behind events (JU 288, XP-50 etc).
Then they added the A-10, A-6E and SU-25.
These are not nieche fun vehicles, they are not good for grinding aircraft (if we ignore the obvious initial balance issue AIM-9L vs Sabres). These attackers IMO exists solely for GRB players who don’t want to grind out air for a good CAS aircraft. By keeping CAS OP they incentivise players to buy these premiums which are useless in other gamemodes but absurdly strong in GRB. If they were to implement a CAS free GRB then these aircraft which are some of their biggest moneymakers would lose all their purpose and the sales would dwindle.
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Again I hear this all the time yet they have gaps in the game where players ,even myself are screaming for premium CAS.
Japan,Sweden and certainly Israel so if that is the case then why all the gaps where CAS is needed.
What 6BR CAS do you have when you start the game as Israel? My CAS in miles behind my tanks in GRB I am at 7.7 with my tanks but cant even get a Sky raider at 5.7.I mean where is the premium sky raider then? Take my money.
What you say is common,makes sense but the game does not bear it out. Again Gaijin madness.
A game without CAS would be like taking predators out of an ecosystem.That system would change radically other units would be available for Gajin to use as premiums.You would see a return of some vehicles that are too open for GRB now.
Open SPs and even towed static guns could make up the short fall in premium sales if it is an issue. Gaijin win any way you look at it.
They made the Mad max side game and the Dune side game and nothing changed for them.The player base didn’t collapse ,queue times were not effected.
People still play ARB and Air Sim.
Always the same, nothing new
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make CAS in GRB more expensive! thats the only sollution for this non stop CAS Spam currently!
I dont care if someone is buthurt about this but it cant be that you can spawn in a fully loaded cas after 1 cap, 1kill or 2assists! thats just broken as hell period!
Personally I think Air RB and Ground RB should be combined. Air RB suffers from stagnancy with the gameplay being pretty much the same with only fighters having real impact on most games. Then you have ground RB which suffers from planes having huge impact on the game and the rewards for purely countering air power being too weak to incentivize enough players to do it.
You combine the two and now you’ve got fighters in the air contesting air supremacy. You’ve got a reason to bring CAS planes, and it will let some pressure off the strategic bombers to bomb bases since the fighters will have to worry about countering CAS as well.
Formulate a way for base bombing and ground capping to contribute to the game equally and you’ll have a game mode that will actually revolve around team play and having to do more than a cookie cutter strategy.
On ground this will also deal with the fact that due to differing doctrines between NATO and Warsaw pact causing NATO countries to have rather poor SPAA choices (See the US tech tree)
Well all i know is NOTHING has changed in GROUND RB!! Tanks ohhhhhh noooo, enemy team had 14 yes FOURTEEN planes in the air… now I ask you this!
ERMMMMMMMM HOW!!! Considering IF you look at their scoring capabilities, Yes some might take maybe 2 or even possibly 3 planes in 1 sitting - which then sugguest WAYYYYY to cheap to get into a plane.!!
The fact we were ruined by CAS in this match just goes to show DESPITE AA its pretty much rediculous!
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That’s why I hate deaths, the reason the enemies could afford to spawn that many CAS is due to too many deaths on your team, but looks like the enemy team have even more deaths lol
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exactly… its completely retarded, their spawn point requirements must have the lowest possible to allow it… even then people will still say “Skill Issue” blah blah blah, but again, Im all for CASbut not that rediculous amout.! but as usual no one will listen and think thats perfectly acceptable in a GROUND battle!
Seriously, you tell me your team only managed to shoot down 12 enemy planes in ground battle?? only 12? really?? honestly you guys need to do better! if you don’t shoot down at least 20 planes in ground battle, don’t even think about playing ground vehicles because you all don’t deserve it!
It seems obvious the CAS needs to be WAY harder to spawn in, bare minimum 3 kills/3 caps. That, and NO immediate Heli spawns, minimum 1 kill just to spawn regular rockets.
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Simple solution:
Lead indicator for SPAA. It updates every few seconds like naval arcade, so a maneuvering plane will be safe. But when he’s aligned on target, he’ll be easier than normal to shoot down.
On one hand this will allow less experienced players to have a more effective starting point and not be a liability, and it will also more rapidly develop their aiming skills and intuition for manual leading.
This is even more important when we remember that across BRs aircraft can fly at a large variety of speeds, and jets can be particularly difficult to manually lead. And in those BR jumps, a player will also use different SPAA that each have different velocities and rates of fire.
For SPAA that are not good at tank-killing, the total time a player will spend in one can be very low until he jumps to the next BR bracket.
I personally don’t believe in measures like increasing spawn point costs or other soft blocks. Players should be able to enjoy flying helicopters and jets in mixed modes. Increased SP just means it’ll be the more skilled players using CAS and then the problem isn’t really solved. It should be a more level playing field.
I know in arcade the system is built entirely different but it is indeed a more level playing field and none’s complaining about CAS then. To the contrary, players want to take CAS for a lot of reasons, and SPAA there are more effective and SPAA players see that as free points.
ha ha ha thats probably very true lol, most ive ever seen in battle in 12 years!
20 planes up in total in GROUND RB, completely laughable.
NOTE: SUGGESTION MOSTLY BASED ON TOP TIER!
- Increase spawn cost, at the least doubled but preferably tripled for high precision guided ordnance. (Meaning that players who want to use these sort of aircraft, would actually risk losing their ability to spawn back in if they die!)
- Increase spawn distance from map from the current, to at least 100 km to give AA time to react.
- Force planes to take off, instead of being given an air spawn.
- Introduce multi-vehicle AA, giving western nations SAM platforms that are capable of engaging planes at long range.
- Make radar based AA actually use locking mechanics for guiding munitions in, SACLOS can still be an option for systems that have such capabilities; but it shouldn’t be the primary form of munition guidance.
- Educate players on how to use AA effectively, and also educate CAS players on how to counter AA effectively.
- Incentivise players to play AA outside of “revenge killing” the plane that just killed you. (ie: people first spawning AA more)
This is my own suggestion list. I think if this is done, the AA vs. Plane engagement could become quite fun. Forcing planes to take off, from a further distnace would prevent them from immediately gaining supremacy over the air and could perhaps incentivize spawning in planes just to kill enemy planes.
The spawn cost is one thing that would definitely have to be increased, but spawn distance is something people over look. The air spawn also gives planes the ability (at least with current munitions) to start firing practically as soon as they spawn in. The radar mechanics being based on SACLOS rather than actual radar locks also hinders the performance of AA at longer ranges, while making it unrealistic at close ranges.
Player education is also important, both for CAS and AA players. So is the incentive for SPAA players to play AA, which currnetly does not exist.
Finally, AA vehicles themselves. The addition of multi-vehicle SPAA would mean that especially BLUFOR nations would finally be able to catch up in the range department. Which is very important if planes spawn further away now.
The advantage should be with the SPAA, the plane should be the ones trying to play around that. Being forced to spawn on the ground, would mean you would have to think how you take off and approach the battlefield!
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