Goading the enemy team into aircraft was a common strategy back in 2017.
At that time, tank costs were higher (roughly double) and so it was easier to knock players out of matches by coaxing them into aircraft as second spawns…before immediately killing them. They’d be low on/out of SP and out of the match based on that. (It was also an ideal time to grind defending fighters/SPAA…CAS hype lulled many to obliviousness.)
Sounds like your experience played to a similar tune.
Sorry but a totally optional vehicle type can’t have same stakes as required one, we’ll have to disagree on that. It’s obvious who’s much more important there.
On the contrary, you could argue that limiting number of CAS at any given moment will also help reduce ODL, because some people will ODL when being killed by air units.
More planes → less ground vehicles → bigger chance for a ground instance to be CAS’d → more CAS related ODLs
Giving players the freedom to do whatever they want is a double-edged sword to say the least.
I’ve seen whole squads spawning Reserve tier meme vehicles at top tier and doing absolutely nothing.
Is this in line with respecting their freedom of choice ? Yes.
Is this healthy for the match/game itself ? No.
Language barrier is a thing for a reason. It’s not easy/quick to bypass that in order to even try to bargain.
Many (if not all) changes will affect thousands of players, don’t really know what you’ve tried to say here.
This is true when teams have almost the perfect balance of player’s average skill. This doesn’t need to happen though and is often not the case with steamrolls being pretty common.
In theory, 16k tickets equals to 160 kills, meaning every player has 10 vehicles at their disposal which is surely way above average. In reality though, for example, your enemy team of 16 people might only have 30-40 available vehicles to respawn in total (remember, you only need a singular vehicle to get into a GRB game), so getting 30-40 kills will effectively equal to 16k tickets or ~400-500 per kill in this example.
It’s also important to note that even if you have enough SP and something to spawn, you might choose not to for various reasons. (your team got curb stomped, spawn camping, CASpam, bad map, etc…).
I’ll pop in here with some comments, based on my AB experience - CAS’s main advantage is that sudden shock/flurry of death, especially to problematic/hard to kill vehicles.
Used right it can be fairly lethal - I have won several AB games due to well-timed rocket/bomb attacks, but without tanks, or if used incorrectly, its not good.
I mostly play top tier and currently the only SPAA that can effectively and consistently counter CAS in the Pansir. Gaijin said they will be working on new multi vehicle AA system so that they can also give NATO countrys good SPAA.
But I think that atleast till we get those we should greatly reduce the spawn cost of aircraft with a air to air loadout. So that instead of spanning in your useless ADATS you will beable to spawn in a F15C and protect your allies on the ground. If we make it that a for example the F15E gets a spawn cost of 250 with a 9M loadout and 300 with AIM-120 people would beable to spawn them even after dying. and of cource make air to ground weapons more expensive so that it still takes the same amount of point to spawn in a air to ground load out.
This in combination with increasing the spawn cost for some of the super OP CAS weapons like KH-38MT would help fix the CAS problem in top tier. At least untill we get more effective SPAA.
Even pantsir often cannot defend their team effectively + spaa rewards for killing planes are a joke.
Imo, augmenting the spawn cost of planes with ground ordnance + making the rewards for killing them actually viable for spaas would start to help. Same with helis, and the ones with fire and forget can even simply pop in and out of cover, shoot their load and hide, before any spaa can hit them which is straight up unbalanced
Remove ticket loss for ground vehicles destroyed by CAS
Massively increase spawn cost for AP belts and dedicated ground attack armament, SL rewards for downing enemy aircraft, plane module research if you kill an enemy CAS aircraft in your own, and add a spawn point penalty for very short lives/slamming into the ground to discourage revenge bombing
I will say it again and again.
Ground spawn for planes without exceptions. And place the airfields in top tier even further away then now.
The surrounding air map of the GRB map is also big enough to place either AI Patriot or S300/400 batteries or equivalent systems + some SHORAD to protect them in random places behind the respective airfields. And if not, make the maps bigger.
The modern battlefield isn’t a free fly zone. Players need to work for that.
Likewise ARMs can then be introduced to give CAS players more to do then just ruin the fun of ground players while being unchallenged.
Seeing helicopter players just climbing straight up above their field without even retracting their landing gear because they know that (in lower BRs) IR missiles and SPAAGs can’t reach them drives me f****** nuts. Heli play in absolute top tier is harder but even there you get the occasional match where for some reason nobody thinks about spawning some AA in. That is the players fault. Otherwise you also see the edge case where every AA is just overwhelmed by CAS and get killed by planes far out of reach while trying to deal with the helicopter threat.
War thunder always claims to depict a realistic battlefield but CAS gameplay is so abysmal and so far away from actual combat on a battlefield with two peer factions that it genuinely ruins the fun for the majority of the players in every top tier match.
And don’t even mention the combat drones. Whoever had that idea hopefully gets the same socks for Christmas every damn year. Just get rid of them (although Patriot/S-300 etc. would cover this bs)
Add CEP to weapons, currently they feel like they are laser accurate, add a few meters drift here and there, a lock on should not guarantee a kill, having to commit more than 1 missle per target would be good, but bombs would be relatively unaffected
One of the simplest solutions to making it balanced is forcing first person only. It’d make it far harder to see targets and force more skill tbh.
Huh? Do you have any just how few tickets are drained when an enemy is destroyed?
This IS a discussion about GRB and not ARB.
Just saying “InCrEasE cAS SpAWN CosT” doesn’t work. The cost of a planes needs a complete rework, factoring things like
And that’s just a handful of factors for the plane itself. The ordinance it carries also needs it own set of factors, and would also need completely separate factors for WW2 and post-war weaponry.
Just increasing airplane spawn cost doesn’t solve anything.
Increasing the reward for shooting down CAS only encourages more players to be useless.
There’s already a penalty for crashing your plane for a revenge kill. It’s called burning 500+ sp on a singular 100 sp vehicle.
No, that wouldn’t increase the need for skill, that would just be a dumb inconvinience. A better solution is forcing full-real controls in GRB, but keeping third person.
Yes it is. 100 per. So losing thousands of tickets to planes in GRB is annoying.
Bro is really choosing the most insignificant factor of CAS in Warthunder to complain about.
The only scenario where CAS effects the outcome of the game with ticket loss from kills, is where both teams are on the brink of losing.
Taking small steps toward balance is bad since they aren’t doing much else?
i would stop pandering to one nation when it comes to AA and make sure every nation got a decent defence throughout the BRs.
but it seems “that” nation will get every AA know to man while other gets to wait up to a year, because they are finally they might have overdone it.
Do you truly believe that Gajin would waste their time, money, and manpower on such a stupid balance chance that doesn’t even slightly address the actual issue? Idk how It’s so hard for CAS haters to understand this, but when something is overpowered, not every nerf is a positive change.
When it’s CAS it is :)
Remove the ability for CAS to kill any Ground vehicle and only be able to disable it.
The CAS abuse has reached new hights and needs to be balanced.
Thing is, we know gaijin is lazy. Increasing the spawn cost so for example, an M22 rushing a cap getting an assist, dying, cannot spawn a plane with enough bombs to wipe half the enemy team in less than 3 minutes.
I’ve seen planes appear in the sky at record speed, and i think it is due to the relatively “low” spawn cost, couple scouts + assists and you’re up… Yes, its not perfect, but it is the most simple solution that gaijin could implement without having make us wait a year or so.
And, i think inscreasing it will fix at the very least the possibility for players to rush a cap, get an assist and then keep playing with only cas (i’ve seen an M22 spawn in, die, get a plane, die, get another plane, die then leaving, getting like 9kills, 0 with ground vehicle).
I feel like you should not get 3 bombs (= 3 kills if you’re not stupid like me) without having a single kill on your own (not saying you have to get a kill, but in score)
Note this is more for low tier, top tier is another type of hell, sometimes AA just wipe the planes sometimes one plane gets 6 kills before anyone can do anything. It really depends from match to match
The reason this happens is due to incompetent SPAA. SPAA is by far the easiest role to play in Warthunder, especially in something like M19A1 or Ostwind which doubles up as a tank killer. Problem is, only the worst players on the team play SPAA, cuz everyone else has enough spawn points for an actual tank.