If APHE won't get its realistic nerf.. then it's time to unrealistically buff AP

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
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A stabiliser is a stabiliser. I can’t say anything about France’s reload rates as I don’t have a clue about them.

But APHE is most certainly breaking physics and is massively overperforming. The orb of death breaks the game and it doesn’t matter how much explosive filler is in each round most of the time. As I’ve mentioned even reserve tanks with APHE will 1-shot knockout whatever it penetrates most of the time, you can observe this in test drive.

Like I’ve said if Gaijin don’t want to nerf APHE because people voted no (genuine skill issue vote and I’m a crap tanker) then buff AP to equally ludicrous levels. It’s only fair that AP creates an orb of shrapnel to match APHE, I want my 17lber to penetrate a Panther turret and send shrapnel backwards killing the entire crew in one shot on a regular basis.

There’s no reason why it shouldn’t considering we’ve already abandoned reality with APHE. Lets make it a click adventure game… it already is for one round.

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a MASSIVE advantage at BR where it is a rare thing.

Were talkin 3 to 4 shots fired in the time it takes Conqueror to reload one.

Would lead to BR increase. If AP and APHE do same amount of damage but AP still retains its increased armor penetration, there would be increase in BRs across the board.

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43

I’d personally rather a round that nuked the entire crew in one shot almost anywhere on the tank (German guns in WW2 tiers for instance) than a stabiliser but that’s a preference thing.

Yeah I can’t comment on that like I said I’ve no idea if France’s reload rates are realistic or not. I know people have said though that the Conqueror takes waaaay too long to reload however.

No it wouldn’t. Certainly not for WW2 AP slingers as they’d still no be any more potent than APHE abusers. A Firefly/Challenger/Tortoise etc still have to hit the small weakspots on the Panther/Tiger II to penetrate whereas the 88mm German guns can detonate them with a hit more or less anywhere. Even the poor old Tortoise has more weak spots frontally than a Tiger II. Now it just means the playing field is more even.

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id advise you to takeyour time and learn to play properly then.

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Really, that’s your response?

Please tell me how a Firefly with APHE like rounds would need a BR increase compared to something like a Panther? The Firefly would still need to penetrate the bouncy Panther turret whereas the Panther can penetrate the Firefly all over. Not to mention the fact the Panther is comfortably faster and in general more manoeuvrable.

Better yet lets try the same thing with a Challenger I or the Comet. Both launch APDS with more pen but they still cannot penetrate the UFP of the Panther at anything other than point blank range (and even then it’s a gamble) compared to the Panther which can one-click delete them even with terribly placed shots.

Why the hell would the BR be increased? The Panther is still not just competitive but arguably the much easier tank to use… its shells don’t shatter neither…

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Why wouldnt it be after your whole argument boils down to “anyone who uses APHE is abuser”?

Moreso when your own stats dont even lineup with what you say?

You have 452 games in ferdinand, tank destroyer armed with the very “OP APHE” you rage about; its a stock shell so theres no grind towards it either.

You barely break KD of 1.0 with it.

Whats there to assume if not that you should really invest some time in learning how to play properly?

If Fireflys damage wise got buffed to the point it would act like the Panthers gun, it would likely get bumped to 5.0, as thats where the VK3002(M) sits.

Newsflash, almost all medium tanks up to 5.7 need to go for turret while Panther can penetrate them anywhere. Its not issue unique to the Firefly. However whats unique to the Firefly is penetration of up to 190mm, meaning it can engage Panther from further.

sure, no one denies Panther being fast in a straight line.

It took my Firefly Trzyniec with lvl 23 crew 12 seconds to complete 360° pivot from standing position. If I first gear up to 2 and then pivot, it completes it in 10 seconds.

Same pivot took Panther Dauphine 33 seconds. If I first gear up to 2 and then pivot, it completes it in 19 seconds.

Double checked with my Panther A using lvl 150 expert crew, took 32 seconds from neutral, 19 seconds if I first gear up.

Panther A horizontal guidance is 20°/s if aced, vertical is 4°/s if aced. Fireflys horizontal guidance is 24°/s if aced, vertical is 4°/s if aced.

Math doesnt add up with your claim, so provide source.

so now its no longer post-pen damage issue but pen issue, aight.

Anyway, early APDS vs. angle isnt issue unique to the Challenger I or Comet, or british as a whole for the matter. Its game engine issue.

Also, I dont know what APDS youre firing with Challenger I, but

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Let me try to say it again, but more slowly.

AP rounds are balanced around lower damage when compared to APHE of the same BR, with tradeoff being higher pen than APHE of same BR.

If you remove the damage limitation from AP, you are left with shell that does the same damage as APHE of same BR but with more pen.

Do you see where the issue is?

In the end you will likely try to dismiss what I said with stuff like “hurr durr I was talking about sim the entire time” (even if theres no sim tag in post header) as some sort of gotcha moment, but since arcade, realistic and sims share the same game engine and same mechanics, buff to AP you ask for in regard of the sim would affect other two modes as well.

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It’s the only lineup that’s properly working, and i’ts entirely due to the autoloader. Try playing the Foch now, and tell me if AP tanks aren’t struggling

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Ive got Foch unlocked in a while and Im not sure im physically able to go back to anything that isnt french autoloader. They ruined me lol.

Anyway I played UK 7.7 before that and I did fairly well according to my standards, and that lineup is mostly AP.

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It’s the same gun as on the Surbaissé, what the Foch struggles with isn’t shell performance, it’s reload, a BR where many uptiers will see you fight stuff that completely negates your armor and the massive rangefinder that will allow even 35 mm APIT to murder you with ease.

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That’s the point, AP rounds do work but only if you can fire quickly to compensate for the bad post pen damage.

The Foch is catastrophic because it takes ages to reload a shell that will only take out the gunner (or even better the commander) on targets with armour. Honnestly the Foch would be great with an APHE and could even move to 7.7 imo

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UK 7.7 doesnt have the reload of the french and it still does well.

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The worst AP users have got to be the low tiers. To stick with France, the B1 47mm gun is horrible, lacking both pen and post pen damage making is basically useless if you can’t use the 75mm.
Let’s not talk about the rest of the lineup which is purely cosmetic …

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it’s not that bad either, how much is it for a centurion ?
Can it pen the hull of a Tiger 2 ?

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The issue is that AP might “Pen” more consistantly but will usually take more than 1 round per target unless you aim for tiny weakspots, with a healthy heaping of luck imo too. Usually the target will be able to get a shot off before you can fire the second or maybe even third round needed to kill (My record was something like 19 rounds into a Tiger II. Didnt get the kill)

APHE on the other hand. Seems to one shot no matter what. I dont think i’ve never not been killed by a direct hit with APHE. Heck, im fairly certain ive been one shot from a hit to the tracks before.

We know that APHE is overperforming massively. There was a plan to make it far far more historically accurate but the CCs voted against it and it was killed. It was stupid. So the next option is to make AP 1HK more consistantly and reduce the rate at which AP shells Shellshatter and ensure everyone has APHE (which Britain for example should actually have on many tanks)

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55

Let’s not forget that “lower pen” has never been a problem with APHE. Take the Jumbo for example, it’s probably the worst pen values at its BR.
However, it has never been a problem as you can just one tap anything through cupolas or other weakspots whereas this is impossible with AP.

Less pen is not an issue and really only affects a very small number of vehicles

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Yeah that too. Its very niche the situations where AP actually holds an advantage

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The only situation where AP has an advantage, is when shooting from the back, through the engine block. That’s it, there’s no other situation that i can think of

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no need, simply plap it on the turret face with AP (185mm on serial production turret) and detonate the first stage ammo rack in the back of the turret.

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Yeah that’s what everyone does, but it’s not garanteed win, whereas it would have been with APHE.
That’s my issue, why would i gamble to hit some ammo when i could just vaporise the crew ?

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As long as you don’t have enough filler to overpressure APHE will often only kill the turret crew, especially when going for off center weakspots like cupolas.

Funnily enough many people still try to claim that 5.7/6.3 is abhorrently overtiered for the Jumbos, so apparently it’s not that easy for the average player. Also doesn’t work ony all vehicles, look at the Panther D for example, not going through that cupola with the 75.

Because you don’t get that choice and vehicles are balanced consideration for shell performance too. That’s how the Char 25T and AMX-50 TO90 ended up at 8.0.