If APHE won't get its realistic nerf.. then it's time to unrealistically buff AP

[Lovecraft2]

They should just redo the vote. Didn’t they talk about doing a revote in the future?

[Cepeleon]

@dannaryan-psn

For starters remove shell shattering, it’s buggy as heck and hurts gameplay… if APHE fuses can’t fail then APDS rounds shouldn’t shatter.

I think this is a good idea.

[Beeschurger]

@dannaryan-psn

It’s nothing to do with “proper tactics”

It absolutely is tied to playstyle.

@dannaryan-psn

In WW2 BR’s especially you’re at an enormous disadvantage with AP due to the seemingly random shell shattering and at times minimal damage.

One gun Im willing to agree that has terrible damage when firing AP only round is the 75mm QQF Mk.V. That gun indeed is atrocious.

Anything else, like the Comets 77mm QQF Mk.II or 17pndr, are good guns.

I dont know what exactly you do with your aim that you struggle, but youre definetively doing something wrong.

@dannaryan-psn

seemingly random shell shattering

Dont fire WW2 APDS at sloped armor or overlaping plates.

@dannaryan-psn

Tank crews don’t just “eat” APHE shells and the rest of the crews survive, something common with AP rounds especially APDS.

Not once Ive had enemy crewmember eat all of my spall from AP round.

@dannaryan-psn

With AP a fair chunk of the time you’re aiming for a weak spot in the hopes of knocking out a couple of the crew.

If you find yourself in situation where it is neccesary to aim with AP for weakspots, in that same situation you would have to aim with APHE as well.

@dannaryan-psn

Like I’ve already mentioned a tank like a Firefly can only damage a Panther through its incredibly bouncy/buggy turret…

Newsflash, Panther UFP can bounce 76mm M1 firing M61 APHE shell, or 85mm ZIS-S-53 firing BR-365 APHE shell as well. 17 pndr using Mk.8 shot isnt special in that regard.

if anything, 17pndr firing Mk.8 shot has actually better chance to get through the what you call “bouncy/buggy turret” than M61 shell because it has more penetration.

Higher pen also allows Firefly to engage from further distances; unlike 76mm or 85mm equipped vehicles that have to either flank, or close the distance.

@dannaryan-psn

Look at the Tiger II’s small turret cheek weakspot, you might kill the gunner or you might turn him yellow and then he obliterates you with a centre mass shot.

If Firefly can naturally meet King Tiger with production turret that sounds more like sim rotation issue rather than issue with how APHE/AP works.

@dannaryan-psn

Even if you go heavy vs heavy, lets compare a Tortoise against a Tiger II. The Tortoise should have an incredibly frightening gun but it doesn’t. That massive AP round can penetrate the turret cheek but once again the round vanishes after it kills the gunner.

If both 20pndr AP and french 100mm OdR can absolutely sodomize Tiger II with production turret in one shot, so can the 32pndr.

@dannaryan-psn

The Tortoise meanwhile is one shot killed by any penetrating round. It’s weaker front plate near the smoke launchers? Dead, the LFP? Dead, even the MG turret? Yep.

Sounds more like BR placement/model accuracy issue rather than issue with how APHE/AP works.

@dannaryan-psn

it’s about the colossal, unrealistic and unfair damage caused by a round that magically has the power to eliminate every single crew member in a single shot inside of such a massive space.

A) APHE firing guns usually have some other tradeoffs that might not be apparent on the first sight
B) AP rounds are perfectly capable of taking out tanks in one shot.

@dannaryan-psn

Then why don’t you use the APCR instead with 300+mm of pen as your main round if penetration is more important?

Because APCR is dogwater and always has been for the entiriety of Warthunders existence. 90mm Pattons have to play around switching between HEAT-FS (being able to pen) and APHE (being able to oneshot). You can very easily get caught “with your pants down” by having wrong shell loaded at the wrong time.

@dannaryan-psn

Because like APDS and most AP it’s unreliable

Stop repeating this obvious lie lol. French 7.7 lineup is mostly AP (with few exceptions such as light tanks having HEAT-FS) and it seems to do fine. Whats your explanation for that?

@dannaryan-psn

one-click delete round that’ll evaporate everything in the enemy tank even with badly placed shots.

APHE wont evaporate anything if it doesnt hit and/or cant pen in the first place.

@dannaryan-psn

There’s a very solid reason why everyone says Britain is painful to play, it’s not because of the tank itself… it’s because of the solid shot and how broken APHE is.

Seeing as Im starting to see pattern of UK players just using WW2 APDS over AP as their main ammo choice, Im starting to suspect it might not be due to AP being supposedly bad.

@dannaryan-psn

No, it isn’t. I’d wager 2/10 of my kills against the Tiger II even with the FV4202 have been the result of that ammo rack detonating, purely because the gunner absorbed the shell and it didn’t even touch that rack.

And 10/10 of my kills against the Tiger II frontally were me just snapshoting their turret face and ammoracking them instantly.

@dannaryan-psn

Considering APHE can nuke entire crews with cupola shots magically spreading shrapnel all over the inside of the tank I’d have to disagree with that statement.

Not all tanks have coupolas.

@dannaryan-psn

Case in point what would you rather kill a Panther with, a Sherman Firefly or a T-34-85? The Firefly will take multiple shots, the T-34 can annihilate the Panther in a single hit due to magical physics defeating shrapnel.

From side, both are likely oneshots. From front, Firefly will take at least two, but can engage Panther from further and has bigger chance to pen its turret without encountering that snails signature spaghetti code.

@dannaryan-psn

make you go nuts

im perfectly fine, thanks for asking. I had absolutely great time playing 7.7 UK and I plan to return to it once I finish spading Sea Meteor.

Overall, this all sounds you just dont know how to properly use british tanks. Id advise you to watch some tutorials, maybe branch out a little outside of UK tanks (you know what they say about grass being greener on the other side).

If you want to test things to confirm your theory, im also down for that.

[soymilkman]

This. Un-capped AP is beyond miserable. Specifically the US developed AP that could handle slopes just fine but this is the complete opposite in game. Capped shells are just always better.

[RunaDacino]

Honestly, if APHE was actually implemented properly I’m confident 95% of the issues with Yak-9K/TIS-MA/UT would evaporate promptly.

[Herojure24]

Yeah. I believe we have all seen the video of the Yak-9K oneshotting a battleship…

Need I say more?

[Jarms]

I just want shatter removed from APDS. If APHE doesn’t fail to fuse or have realistic performance why are we adding drawbacks to other shell types?

[poopooo]

@soymilkman

Specifically the US developed AP that could handle slopes just fine but this is the complete opposite in game

Exactly, it was possibly by chance or to reduce costs initially, but then they realized that the Full AP rounds performed better at a 60º angle. For example, this is clearly seen in the simple fact that both the M41 and the M103 used APBC rounds as their primary ammunition, and didn’t have any APHE rounds. In fact, I find the M103’s penetration at 60º somewhat deficient, since it’s a gun that was designed to penetrate IS-3s and T-54s.

[Herojure24]

Indeed. Also remove shatter from HVAP. I want my coax 20mm of amx-30 to allow me to kill BMPs and BTRs again.