I think there might be a issue with how planes behave at Higher Altitudes

[Heavytanker1945]

Just got done with a Match in my Javelin Mk9, its stock, but even stock that things pretty decent.

I was the last guy left, and i had no chance to beating the like 6 enemy planes left, so i thought “Lets go to space, make em work for it”

I get to about 8.5km Up, and then they pop a Avenger to mark me on the map.

I think, ehh its fine because most them were still basically on the deck looking for me. Well about only a MINUTE after they popped that Avenger, a Chinese knock off Mig-15 (AKA the J-2) appears on my ass, and For some reason, my plane that should have had EVERY advantage that far up, gets out sped, climbed, accelerated, and even out turned at over 8km in the air.

And that just make’s NO sense Because i had Afterburners, meaning i wasn’t struggling for thrust due to thin air, i had HUGE wings, with HUGE Control surfaces design for being THAT high up since the Javelin was Designed as a Interceptor for Bombers and High Altitude fighters.

How on earth a Junky MIG-15 knock off, with horrid thrust, tiny wings and control surfaces, and a single engine with half the power of ONE of my engines

With no afterburner even, managed to climb upwards of 5-6KM in only about a Minute or two, then proceeded to Stomp on my plane DESIGNED for that Altitude. I do not know, but i think its a problem.

It seems like the game isn’t properly calculating how Altitude affects planes or something.

I’m not super well versed in that kind of thing, But i feel like a plane literally DESIGNED for Fighting at that kind of Altitude should do a little better up there, then some Afterburner less Mig-15 knock off designed for fighting at like 3-4km up.

[Josephs_Piano]

I think you might bereft of factual analysis - the Mig is just over 1/3rd your weight, and it too is “designed to fight at high altitude” - it was specifically designed to kill high altitude American bombers at 30k feet and above.

It outclimbed the F-86 and had a higher service ceiling than them - it often had the height advantage on them in Korea.

Leave your comic book prejudices behind.

[Heavytanker1945]

The MIG-15 also has nowhere near the Wing surface area, or control surfaces to allow it to have proper control at that high of Altitude.

It doesn’t have a Variable tail even.

It still should have lost that fight.

If it was a Mig-17? Id accept that i lost, Because that is the more Beefy, HIGH altitude Mig. But the 15 just isn’t properly built to turn fight at that kind of Altitude, at least not enough to allow it to go toe to toe with a plane that already is only like a second slower on turn time than it on the deck, and PURPOSE built to be that high.

[Ion_Protogen]

@Heavytanker1945

With no afterburner even, managed to climb upwards of 5-6KM in only about a Minute or two, then proceeded to Stomp on my plane DESIGNED for that Altitude. I do not know, but i think its a problem.

It can easily climb at 40-50 m/s, which isn’t slow. It’s also small so it doesn’t need a ton of power to go mach 0.91 at 8500m.

@Heavytanker1945

“Lets go to space, make em work for it

For jets that mindset doesn’t really work well considering how fast they climb, and the fact that they still have performance at altitude.

Do you have a link to the server replay, or atleast what map it was on?

[Josephs_Piano]

uh… no… do some actual research and stop reading war comics…

Nothing you have said about its performance is true.

[Morvran]

Javelin is a rather sad aircraft. Especially since it got nerfed in the firebirds update

@Stona_WT

Javelin F.Mk 9 — afterburning thrust at sea level has been reduced to the maximum thrust without afterburning due to the poor performance of the fuel pumps. Full afterburning thrust is achieved at about 6 km.

I really dont understand why its still at the BR it is. Could do with dropping by 0.3 in RB and 0.3-0.7 in SB (its 0.3 higher in SB currently)

Everytime I try to play it, everything out turns you and everything is faster than you and the guns are incredibly hard to use, being both 30mm ADENs and wing mounted and not fuselage mounted.

Firestreaks are okay if you dont expect the world of them, but its hard to get into a shot oppotunity. Only redeeming quality is the radar which, when there isnt any clouds, is awesome in Sim for finding high alt bombers.

Its also rather tanky. I landed like this. The guy who shot one wing off and then rammed me and took off the other after I killed him in a head on, was… mad…

[Dodo_Dud]

@Morvran_

I landed like this.

Ah, that is the carrier version…

[Heavytanker1945]

@Morvran_

Its also rather tanky. I landed like this. The guy who shot one wing off and then rammed me and took off the other after I killed him in a head on, was… mad…

Tell that to me dying to every last F-86 i come across that hits me with 3 50s cals.

[Morvran]

Okay… easy to fly with no wings instead of “tanky” ?

[Real_K_Soze]

@Heavytanker1945

And that just make’s NO sense

This makes every sense as you got zoom climbed by a guy climbing at 650 TAS whilst you were cruising with 500. You reacted way too late regarding the approaching contrail - and then wrong. Instead of diving away to pick up speed you turned around (bleeding even more non-existent speed), whilst the J-2 just had to dodge your attack.

I mean you ended up below him and he had to drop throttle to allow you to pass below hin.

The replay:

Gaijin Entertainment - Single Sign On

Your post would make some sense if you would have flown your plane at optimal / top speed, but not with ~300 kmph IAS / ~ 500 kmph TAS. You can’t turn without speed.

[RXDimA]

OP, give statshark FM comparisons a try. The Mig-15 has less drag, evening the playing field by quite a bit.

[Heavytanker1945]

@Uncle J Wick@live

Your post would make some sense if you would have flown your plane at optimal / top speed, but not with ~300 kmph IAS / ~ 500 kmph TAS. You can’t turn without speed.

Except… Yah know, The Javelin turns better at lower speed?

Like MOST planes?

Flying at or near Top speed heavily reduces your turn time, and nose authority.

Plus i was low on fuel, and trying to preserve what i had to try and drag the match out to be annoying.

[Heavytanker1945]

Doing testing, the Javelin hits its best turn rate between 300-400mph, which is where i was trying to stay for that entire engagement.

While its not a GREAT turn rate, at 26 seconds, its better than alot of players think.

[RXDimA]

What does “turn better” mean for you? Because there is more to turning than just degrees/sec.

Spoiler

Point at the graph where you turn better.

[Real_K_Soze]

@Heavytanker1945

It seems like the game isn’t properly calculating how Altitude affects planes or something.

No - everything is fine with high alt dogfighting.The problem is the wt meta favours low to medium alt fights - and almost nobody has a clue to perform high alt fights or how their planes behave above 8 km.

I am used to be the last guy in my team. And i fly up to 10 km alt with very good turning props (SM 92, B7A2, B-18B - which have all very good high alt performance) when i got hopelessly outnumbered but i have the chance to win by tickets or to create 1 vs 1s.

Basically planes gets way less responsive and most guys underestimate the effects of the IAS / TAS effect - like stall speed or rip speed.

That’s why you can win turnfights even against J2M2s above 9 km - they get sluggish like hell and their incredible low speed handling (like the Pyoerremski) gets way less decisive like at 5 or 6 km. On top of that a lot of planes lose engine power above 6-7 km - which affects speed and subsequently turn.

@Heavytanker1945

Doing testing, the Javelin hits its best turn rate between 300-400mph, which is where i was trying to stay for that entire engagement.

You talk about 480 to 640 kmph - this does not work with ~300 kmph IAS at high alt, the thin air kills your turn rate substantially.

[LukavMineav]

This is cool, learning a lot

[AlvisWisla]

Wing design science.
Javelin has a trash wing design, it’s hilariously bad, especially for maneuverability.
It’s among the heaviest aircraft at its BR as well.

Javelin was design for intercepting, not dogfighting.

@Heavytanker1945

The MIG-15 also has nowhere near the Wing surface area

Wait until you find out that F-5C with even less wing area than Mig-15 and Jav performs better in dogfights.
Wing area is not a good thing outside generating lift, you need specific wing designs that encourage maneuverability [See F-18, or delta canards for active-flight system aircraft].

[Nike_Ajax]

@Heavytanker1945

And that just make’s NO sense Because i had Afterburners, meaning i wasn’t struggling for thrust due to thin air, i had HUGE wings, with HUGE Control surfaces design for being THAT high up since the Javelin was Designed as a Interceptor for Bombers and High Altitude fighters.

How on earth a Junky MIG-15 knock off, with horrid thrust, tiny wings and control surfaces, and a single engine with half the power of ONE of my engines

everything is relative.

if you know what i mean…

[Heavytanker1945]

Also when was the last time you flew this thing?

It legit isn’t even surviving single 50 cal hits now. Legit i get hit ONCE by some F-86 or G91 and it just goes into a flatspin or something and becomes completely unflyable.

YET at the SAME time, i tanked a Aim-9B, lost a engine, and flew all the way back to base. Its dumb.

Can’t survive a hit from a Bullet that weighs nothing, yet tanks a Aim-9B to the belly

Same thing just happened AGAIN, ate a Single ADEN round to the Wing from a FRIENDLY SWIFT, entire Plane just went into a Unrecoverable flat split, i dropped from like 400MPH, to under 200 in seconds as well.

Also i don’t think Firestreaks are working right at all, these things legit seem like they are hitting nowhere near their stated Mach 3 speed, As in alot of cases im catching up to them after i launch them.

[kimpromo2]

People really need to stop using “it was designed to do xyz” as an argument for why they should win.